[96949] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Sunlight and Starlight
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bellerophon, modeler)
Mon Aug 19 14:09:00 2013
In-Reply-To: <4D20D1A8-4749-464F-8044-AEB4BEE92D4D@flyingstart.ca>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:08:25 -0400
From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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'o Qov, jItaghqa' 'e' Dachaw'.
jIQochbe'! jIQaghtaHbe'chugh jIghojbe'choH. maSwov lubopbe'mo' QaghwIj,
jabbI'IDghomDaq qajangbe'.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>wrote:
>
> Or maybe you just missed a -be' in your last sentence. I hope so.
>
Indeed, that is the case. I assemble Klingon sentences the way I assemble
English sentences, like refrigerator magnet poetry. The earlier iterations
are awkward and I don't catch all my mistakes.
Also if you have formed an idea about Klingon from your long association
> with TKD and it doesn't match what's being done here, make us defend our
> usage with canon, not with habit.
>
> My ideas about Klingon come from speculation rather than usage. Clearly
canon is like the tip of an iceberg, giving tantalizing hints about what
lies beneath the surface.
Consider for instance the three canon nominalizers: -wI' makes a noun of
agency as in muvwI' (at least for non-stative verbs); -ghach makes either a
noun expressing a state as in lo'laHghach or a noun expressing a result (or
a new state) as in naDHa'ghach; and <null> results in all sorts of nouns
that are identical in form to the verb. The apparent non-canon nominalizer
-la' is seen only in the noun Qapla', which expresses a result. If Qapla'
is not just a unique idiom, could different meanings result from <null>,
-ghach, and -la'? The use of nominalizers in English is often idiomatic,
and I wonder what the full grammar and usage might be in Klingon. For
example, could the verb pab "follow (rules)" result not only in pab
"grammar," but also pabghach "observance (of rules)", and pabla' "a fair
move"? Probably not, but the possibilities are vast and we'll never find
out all Maltz knows! Do'Ha'!
Those of you who have become proficient in Klingon demonstrate what can (or
can't) be expressed in accordance with canon. This has helped guide MO to
expand on topics like comparatives and superlatives, which he barely
touched in TKD. You are like test pilots. I might get a little stick time,
but I'm a slide-rule guy.
~'eD
--
My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>'o Qov, jItaghqa' 'e' Dachaw'.</d=
iv>jIQochbe'! jIQaghtaHbe'chugh jIghojbe'choH. maSwov lubopbe&#=
39;mo' QaghwIj,=A0<span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size=
:13px">jabbI'IDghom</span>Daq qajangbe'.<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon,=
Aug 19, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Robyn Stewart <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"m=
ailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca" target=3D"_blank">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>><=
/span> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-=
style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto"><div>Or maybe you just missed a -be' in your last sen=
tence. I hope so.</div></div></blockquote><div>=A0</div><div>=A0Indeed, tha=
t is the case. I assemble Klingon sentences the way I assemble English sent=
ences, like refrigerator magnet poetry. The earlier iterations are awkward =
and I don't catch all my mistakes.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Also if you have for=
med an idea about Klingon from your long association with TKD and it doesn&=
#39;t match what's being done here, make us defend our usage with canon=
, not with habit.=A0</div>
</div></blockquote><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div></=
div>
</div></blockquote></div>My ideas about Klingon come from speculation rathe=
r than usage. Clearly canon is like the tip of an iceberg, giving tantalizi=
ng hints about what lies beneath the surface.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a">
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Consider for instance the three canon =
nominalizers: -wI' makes a noun of agency as in muvwI' (at least fo=
r non-stative verbs); -ghach makes either a noun expressing a state as in l=
o'laHghach or a noun expressing a result (or a new state) as in naDHa&#=
39;ghach; and <null> results in all sorts of nouns that are identical=
in form to the verb. The apparent non-canon nominalizer -la' is=A0seen=
only in the noun=A0Qapla', which expresses a result. If Qapla' is =
not just a unique idiom, could different meanings result from <null>,=
-ghach, and -la'?=A0The use of nominalizers in English is often idioma=
tic, and I wonder what the full grammar and usage might be in Klingon. For =
example, could the verb pab "follow (rules)" result not only in p=
ab "grammar," but also pabghach "observance (of rules)"=
, and pabla' "a fair move"? Probably not, but the possibiliti=
es are vast and we'll never find out all Maltz knows! Do'Ha'!</=
div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Those of yo=
u who have become proficient in Klingon demonstrate what can (or can't)=
be expressed in accordance with canon. This has helped guide MO to expand =
on topics like comparatives and superlatives, which he barely touched in TK=
D. You are like test pilots. I might get a little stick time, but I'm a=
slide-rule guy.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">~'eD</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br cle=
ar=3D"all"><div>--=A0<br></div>My modeling blog:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
<a href=3D"http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>
My other modeling blog:=A0 <a href=3D"http://bellerophon.blog.com/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><br>
</div></div>
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