[96839] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] bop mu'mey
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Russ Perry Jr)
Wed Jul 31 09:17:11 2013
In-Reply-To: <E5A8CDEE-F741-44A7-9C28-150E7FD52AAB@flyingstart.ca>
From: Russ Perry Jr <russperryjr@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:16:38 -0500
To: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Qov, it's Led Zeppelin's "Immigrant Song".
On Jul 31, 2013, at 5:05 AM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
> On 2013-07-30, at 23:15, "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail=
.com> wrote:
>=20
>> I attempted a translation of a song that needs to be in Klingon. Let's se=
e if anyone recognizes it. I took some artistic license:
>=20
> Artistic license is when you translate English with a valid word that mean=
s something else. Making noun-verb compounds or using a word as the wrong pa=
rt of speech is just abuse.=20
>=20
>> I coined "chu'pawwI"
>=20
> Your meaning is covered without grammatical error by pawwI' chu' - one who=
arrives and who is new. Also:
> chu'wI' - one who is new=20
> taghwI' - beginner
> chu'chu'wI' - complete newbie
>=20
>> for newcomer, which is close to the word in the English title, and used "=
ped" as a noun.
>=20
> ped is nothing. peD is a verb.=20
>=20
>> I committed other crimes to try to fit the meter, and there will always b=
e typos.
>=20
> The issue here is what do you want us to do about it? I'm happy to help so=
meone write clearer, more grammatical Klingon, but when he says, "look at th=
is thing I did, I know it's wrong, I did that on purpose," what is the point=
? I'll try to guess what you don't know and say what it means to me as I rea=
d it.=20
>=20
>> chu'pawwI' bop
>=20
> pawwI' chu' bop
> It is about the new arrival.=20
>=20
>> chuch ped
>=20
> chuch peD je - it also snows ice
>=20
>> puHvo' ramjep
>> pemHovvo'
>> SoDtaH
>=20
> =46rom the land, from the midnight daytime star (we have a word jul now fo=
r sun, but I just figured out from the English term that you might mean "fro=
m the land of the midnight sun"). Create your noun-noun grouping first, then=
put -vo' on the final element.=20
>=20
> ramjep jul puH - midnight sun land
>=20
> ramjep jul puHvo' SoDtaH - It floods from the midnight sun land
>=20
> A noun with -Daq or -vo' goes at the beginning of its clause, so when I se=
e one in the middle of a sentence without a conjunction or punctuation, I ge=
t confused. I'm inserting sentence breaks where that happens.=20
>=20
>> bIQHalmey tujDaq maghoS maH.
>=20
> I'm okay with bIQHalmey tuj for hot springs, but bIHDaq maghoS means that w=
e proceed already in them. You probably want bIH DIghoS, we go to them.=20
>=20
>> puHmeyDaQ
>=20
> DaQ is ponytail. I know you mean "-Daq."
>=20
>> Dujmeymaj yuv Qunpu' mupwI',
>=20
> So, "the gods' hammer pushes our ships to lands," Or maybe "on the lands"
>=20
>> novghom'a' wISuvmo',
>=20
> because we fight an alien horde.=20
>=20
>> wIbomtaH, wIjachtaH: Suto'vo'qor, jIghoStaH!
>=20
> We sing it, we scream it, Valhalla, I'm coming.=20
>=20
>> DonchuqtaH maH,
>=20
> We go parallel to one another, (don't forget the prefix on maDon)=20
>=20
>> moqtaH bI'wI'mo'. wa' ngoQmaj 'oHbej puH Hop'e'.
>=20
> because our oars beat. (I like that one, given the ship context, bI'wI' is=
understandable as oar. Distant land is definitely one of our goals.=20
>>=20
>> tunqu' bIH yotlhmey SuDqu''e'.
>=20
> The green fields are so soft.=20
>=20
>> 'Iwmo' lutmey tlhuplaH bIH,
>=20
> They can whisper songs because of blood.=20
>=20
>> veS yu'eghmey DIjotmoHta' 'e'.
>=20
> We have calmed the waves of warfare. (no idea what that 'e' is trying to d=
o)
>=20
>> joHpu'raj joHpu' maH.
>=20
> We are the lords of your lords.=20
>=20
>> DaH SumevnIS tlhiH 'ej pIghraj bochenqa',
>=20
> You must stop now and you will -- okay you're going for "rebuild your rui=
ns." The subject of chen is the thing that takes form. With another actor, u=
se chenmoH. pIghraj bochenqa'moH makes me first think of building new ruins.=
Is that an idiom in English?
>=20
>> 'ach wa'leS lutlhlaH roj voq ej, 'ach jajvam SulujtaH.
>=20
> But tomorrow the peace can be primitive ... and he trusts it? ('ej is in t=
he wrong place) .. but this day you are losing.=20
>=20
> So from context it's a Viking song, but I don't know it.=20
>=20
> People always feel compelled to translate songs, and are often affronted w=
hen we beg them to walk before they run, but there we are.
>=20
> qep'a'Daq qaqIH 'e' vItIv. wa' nem qaStaHvIS wanI' naQ bISaH 'e' vItul.=20=
>=20
> And 'angghal seemed to think you owed him money.=20
>=20
> - Qov
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><div>Qov, it's Led Zeppelin's "Immigra=
nt Song".</div></div><div><br>On Jul 31, 2013, at 5:05 AM, Robyn Stewart <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> wrote:=
<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><meta http-equiv=3D"content-typ=
e" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div>On 2013-07-30, at 23:15, "Bel=
lerophon, modeler" <<a href=3D"mailto:bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com">bell=
erophon.modeler@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div><br></div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I attempted a translation of a song th=
at needs to be in Klingon. Let's see if anyone recognizes it. I took some ar=
tistic license: </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Artistic licen=
se is when you translate English with a valid word that means something else=
. Making noun-verb compounds or using a word as the wrong part of speech is j=
ust abuse. <div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v>I coined "chu'pawwI" </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Your me=
aning is covered without grammatical error by <span style=3D"-webkit-ta=
p-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-colo=
r: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 1=
28, 180, 0.230469); ">pawwI' chu' - one who arrives and who is new. Also:</s=
pan><br>chu'wI' - one who is new <div>taghwI' - beginner</div><div>chu'=
chu'wI' - complete newbie</div><div><br></div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>for newcomer, which is close to the word in=
the English title, and used "ped" as a noun. </div></div></div></blockquote=
><div><br></div>ped is nothing. peD is a verb. </div><div><br><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I committed other crimes to try t=
o fit the meter, and there will always be typos.</div></div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div>The issue here is what do you want us to do about it? I'm h=
appy to help someone write clearer, more grammatical Klingon, but when he sa=
ys, "look at this thing I did, I know it's wrong, I did that on purpose," wh=
at is the point? I'll try to guess what you don't know and say what it means=
to me as I read it. </div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite=
"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><u>chu'pawwI' bop</u></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>paww=
I' chu' bop</div><div>It is about the new arrival. </div><div><br><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>chuch ped </div></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div>chuch peD je - it also snows ice</div><div><br><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>puHvo' ramjep</div></div=
></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>pem=
Hovvo'</div><div>SoDtaH </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=46rom=
the land, from the midnight daytime star (we have a word jul now for sun, b=
ut I just figured out from the English term that you might mean "from the la=
nd of the midnight sun"). Create your noun-noun grouping first, then put -vo=
' on the final element. </div><div><br></div><div>ramjep jul puH - midn=
ight sun land</div><div><br></div><div>ramjep jul puHvo' SoDtaH - It floods f=
rom the midnight sun land<br><div><br></div>A noun with -Daq or -vo' goes at=
the beginning of its clause, so when I see one in the middle of a sentence w=
ithout a conjunction or punctuation, I get confused. I'm inserting sentence b=
reaks where that happens. <br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>bIQHalmey tujDaq maghoS maH.</div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div>I'm okay with bIQHalmey tuj for hot springs, but bIHDaq maghoS=
means that we proceed already in them. You probably want bIH DIghoS, we go t=
o them. <br><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">
<div>puHmeyDaQ </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>DaQ is ponytail=
. I know you mean "-Daq."</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>Dujmeymaj yuv Qunpu' mupwI',</div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div>So, "the gods' hammer pushes our ships to lands," Or maybe "on=
the lands"</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv>novghom'a' wISuvmo', </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>becaus=
e we fight an alien horde. <br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>wIbomtaH, wIjachtaH: Suto'vo'qor, jIghoStaH!</div></div></di=
v></blockquote><div><br></div>We sing it, we scream it, Valhalla, I'm coming=
. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>D=
onchuqtaH maH,</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>We go parallel t=
o one another, (don't forget the prefix on maDon) </div><div><br><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> moqtaH bI'wI'mo'. wa' ngoQma=
j 'oHbej puH Hop'e'.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span styl=
e=3D"-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-compos=
ition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-c=
olor: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">because our oars beat. (I like that on=
e, given the ship context, bI'wI' is understandable as oar. Distant land is d=
efinitely one of our goals. </span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">
<div><br></div><div>tunqu' bIH yotlhmey SuDqu''e'.</div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div>The green fields are so soft. </div><div><br><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> 'Iwmo' lutmey tlhuplaH bIH,</div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div>They can whisper songs because of blood. </d=
iv><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>veS yu'eghmey DIjotmoHta' 'e'. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=
We have calmed the waves of warfare. (no idea what that 'e' is trying to do)=
</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>joHpu'raj joH=
pu' maH.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>We are the lords of your lor=
ds. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>
DaH SumevnIS tlhiH 'ej pIghraj bochenqa',</div></div></blockquote><div><br><=
/div>You must stop now and you will -- okay you're going for "rebuild y=
our ruins." The subject of chen is the thing that takes form. With another a=
ctor, use chenmoH. pIghraj bochenqa'moH makes me first think of building new=
ruins. Is that an idiom in English?</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>'ach wa'leS lutlhlaH roj voq ej, 'ach jajvam SulujtaH=
.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>But tomorrow the peace can be primi=
tive ... and he trusts it? ('ej is in the wrong place) .. but this day you a=
re losing. </div><div><br></div></div></div><div>So from context it's a=
Viking song, but I don't know it. </div><div><br></div><div>People alw=
ays feel compelled to translate songs, and are often affronted when we beg t=
hem to walk before they run, but there we are.</div><div><br></div><div>qep'=
a'Daq qaqIH 'e' vItIv. wa' nem qaStaHvIS wanI' naQ bISaH 'e' vItul. </d=
iv><div><br></div><div>And 'angghal seemed to think you owed him money. =
;</div><div><br></div><div>- Qov</div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>=
<span>Tlhingan-hol mailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-h=
ol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a></span=
><br><span><a href=3D"http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhin=
gan-hol">http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a></=
span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=
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