[96222] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] pride and values
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick)
Mon May 13 11:03:00 2013
From: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 01:02:40 +1000
In-Reply-To: <ACF6622D959A8842A81E4471BA56A7E001F4A83B@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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ghItlhpu' Voragh=2C jatlh:
> FYI: {nur} "dignity" was used elsewhere in the opera/PB for "pride":
> "In the draft for the opera ['u']=2C it was used to translate "pride" lik=
e this:
> "We will avenge your stolen pride" {nurraj nIHlu'ta'mo' manoD} [and]
> "with it I restore pride and values of the Klingon empire" {tlhIngan wo'
> nur ghob je HoSmoH quvvam}" [Quvar=2C 8/22/2011]
> How {nur} differs from {le'yo'} (which is used in a similar sense elsewhe=
re
> in the opera/PB) is unclear. I don't have the relevant verse in my notes=
.
In fact=2C the first verse discussed by Quvar uses {le'yo'} instead of {nur=
} in the final published version. The word appears twice in two consecutive=
verses (paq'raD 8:19-24=2C though potentially elsewhere too):
'ej Hoch vengHomDaq Hoch vengDaq je
Suchbogh ghaH qeylIS luQoy
woQ le'yo' je 'aghbej ghaH
le'yo'raj nIHlu'ta'mo' penoD jatlh qeylIS
nuHmeyraj tIQorgh
watlh 'Iwraj 'e' lu'aghmo' nuHmey jej
"And Kahless spoke to them
in every village and city he went=2C
filled with pride and authority=2C
about avenging their stolen pride=2C
about caring for their weapons=2C
for they represent the purity of their blood."
taH:
> HemtaHvIS vay'=2C ghaH DuQchu' le'yo'. HemtaHghach 'oS 'oH.
> [QeS=2C 8/18/2011]
Indeed I did. How it differs from {nur} "dignity" is still murky=2C but tha=
t {le'yo'} is the noun for the feeling or emotion that one senses when one =
is {Hem} does seem clear. Just a few verses previously=2C the paq'batlh tal=
ks about Kahless travelling the lands with an "equal number of proud Klingo=
ns" - {lutlhej tlhInganpu' Hem mI' nIb} (paq'raD 8:12) - and since these ve=
rses talk about Kahless showing this pride in order to help the other Kling=
ons realise what they have lost=2C the connection between {le'yo'} and {Hem=
} seems semantically pretty straightforward.
I wonder if the word {le'yo'} could be from a statement made by a commander=
expressing pride in those under his command? {le' yo'} "the fleet is speci=
al"? {{:)
QeS
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>ghItlhpu' Voragh=2C jatlh:<br>&g=
t=3B FYI: {nur} "dignity" was used elsewhere in the opera/PB for "pride":<=
br><div>>=3B "In the draft for the opera ['u']=2C it was used to translat=
e "pride" like this:<br>>=3B "We will avenge your stolen pride" {nurraj n=
IHlu'ta'mo' manoD} [and]<br>>=3B "with it I restore pride and values of t=
he Klingon empire" {tlhIngan wo'<br>>=3B nur ghob je HoSmoH quvvam}" [Quv=
ar=2C 8/22/2011]<br>>=3B How {nur} differs from {le'yo'} (which is used i=
n a similar sense elsewhere<br>>=3B in the opera/PB) is unclear. I don't=
have the relevant verse in my notes.<br><br>In fact=2C the first verse dis=
cussed by Quvar uses {le'yo'} instead of {nur} in the final published versi=
on. The word appears twice in two consecutive verses (paq'raD 8:19-24=2C th=
ough potentially elsewhere too):<br><br>'ej Hoch vengHomDaq Hoch vengDaq je=
<br>Suchbogh ghaH qeylIS luQoy<br>woQ le'yo' je 'aghbej ghaH<br><br>le'yo'r=
aj nIHlu'ta'mo' penoD jatlh qeylIS<br>nuHmeyraj tIQorgh<br>watlh 'Iwraj 'e'=
lu'aghmo' nuHmey jej<br><br>"And Kahless spoke to them<br>in every village=
and city he went=2C<br>filled with pride and authority=2C<br><br>about ave=
nging their stolen pride=2C<br>about caring for their weapons=2C<br>for the=
y represent the purity of their blood."<br><br>taH:<br>>=3B HemtaHvIS v=
ay'=2C ghaH DuQchu' le'yo'. HemtaHghach 'oS 'oH.<br>>=3B [QeS=2C 8/18/2=
011]<br><br>Indeed I did. How it differs from {nur} "dignity" is still murk=
y=2C but that {le'yo'} is the noun for the feeling or emotion that one sens=
es when one is {Hem} does seem clear. Just a few verses previously=2C the p=
aq'batlh talks about Kahless travelling the lands with an "equal number of =
proud Klingons" - {lutlhej tlhInganpu' Hem mI' nIb} (paq'raD 8:12) - and si=
nce these verses talk about Kahless showing this pride in order to help the=
other Klingons realise what they have lost=2C the connection between {le'y=
o'} and {Hem} seems semantically pretty straightforward.<br><br>I wonder if=
the word {le'yo'} could be from a statement made by a commander expressing=
pride in those under his command? {le' yo'} "the fleet is special"? {{:)<b=
r><br>QeS<br></div> </div></body>
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