[95493] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] mIl'oD veDDIr SuvwI': 'ay' 15 - pop 'oH ghob'e'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh)
Tue Jan 8 08:07:58 2013
From: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 23:07:31 +1000
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130107202137.06f3b800@flyingstart.ca>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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jIjatlhpu':
> DeSDajDaq ghaH tlhap roStevan 'ej paw'chu'=3B
jangpu' Qov=2C jatlh:
> Rostevan took him in his arms and they
> [demonstrated affection in a culturally appropriate manner].
jIH:
> Well put. :)
Qov:
> I found myself unable to guess what that was=20
> going to be for Georgians=2C and the Klingon form sounds silly in English=
.
jIyaj. Georgians kiss. Middle Georgians even more so. Either way=2C chop wa=
s going to be totally inappropriate.
jIH:
> qo' bel ghaH tIna'tIn'e'=2C mIp'a' wellu'bogh ghaH.
Qov:
> Tinatin was a pleasant world=2C. She was a fortune owed.
jIH:
> Hrm. I see how you got "a pleasant world". I'll=20
> change it to {qo'vaD bel} or {qo' bel'a'} (the=20
> English is "She is the joy of the world=2C she is treasure and due").
Qov:
> qo' bel'a' brings the meaning to me more=20
> directly. I don't understand the point of the=20
> 'due' or 'owed' aspect. Are you sure the word=20
> due in the original has the meaning of something that must be paid?
Yep. The Georgian is /vali/ "debt"=2C from the same root as /movalea/ "to o=
we". Nevertheless I'm a bit in two minds about keeping it - it is pretty op=
aque.
(poD vay')
Qov:
> [Okay=2C now I'm confused. Is this a flashback to
> Avtandil's role in administration of the royal
> city before he left=2C or by virtue of his great
> beauty and conversational skills he suddenly is
> put in charge of a border city. Did you mean cho'
> and not che' earlier? Did I miss something? Or
> am I just failing to grasp the cultural context
> that Avtandil simply possesses everything he passes through?]
jIH:
> No=2C as you worked out in the next paragraph=2C=20
> 'avtanDIl already had the role of administering=20
> this city. I'm a little loath to change the=20
> order of presentation of facts in the story=2C but=20
> from what you say=2C this might be one that needs=20
> cutting out from here and putting earlier in the narrative.
Qov:=20
> There may be clues in the verb forms that make it=20
> clearer in English/Georgian and require some more=20
> explanation in Klingon. I know from my novel=20
> that one needs more specific scene setting for=20
> flashbacks or recollections in Klingon. I=20
> frequently had to make things more linear than I would have in English.
Quite fair enough=2C and that's the kind of thing that I wouldn't ever work=
out on my own - I'm grateful for your insights into things like that.
jIH:
> loDnalwI' Damoj SoH neH vIneH=2C latlh
> vIneHbe'qu'=3B tIqwIjDaq lav pochbogh Sor'a' 'oH SanwIj'e'.=9B
Qov:
> I want only you to become my husband. I want no
> other. My fate is a bush a great tree plants in
> my heart. [Or possibly a great tree that planted
> a bush in my heart. Trees planting bushes confuse me]>
jIH:
> It's another one of the metaphors that runs=20
> throughout the whole bom.
(poD mu' law')
Qov:
> It's fine. I don't think it's the Klingon here=20
> that confuses me. I hope there will be lots of=20
> footnotes saying things like=2C "i.e. Avtandil". I=20
> might have followed it better without the six month gap in reading=2C too=
.
Understood. My dissertation is very nearly done and I'm intending to be mor=
e regular with posting 'ay'mey from here=2C so hopefully the narrative thre=
ad will be a little more consistent.
QeS
=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
jIjatlhpu':<br>>=3B DeSDajDaq ghaH tlhap roStevan 'ej paw'chu'=3B<br><div=
><br>jangpu' Qov=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B Rostevan took him in his arms and they=
<br>>=3B [demonstrated affection in a culturally appropriate manner].<br>=
<br>jIH:<br>>=3B Well put. :)<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B I found myself unable=
to guess what that was <br>>=3B going to be for Georgians=2C and the Kli=
ngon form sounds silly in English.<br><br>jIyaj. Georgians kiss. Middle Geo=
rgians even more so. Either way=2C chop was going to be totally inappropria=
te.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B qo' bel ghaH tIna'tIn'e'=2C mIp'a' wellu'bogh gha=
H.<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B Tinatin was a pleasant world=2C. She was a fortune=
owed.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B Hrm. I see how you got "a pleasant world". I'l=
l <br>>=3B change it to {qo'vaD bel} or {qo' bel'a'} (the <br>>=3B Engl=
ish is "She is the joy of the world=2C she is treasure and due").<br><br>Qo=
v:<br>>=3B qo' bel'a' brings the meaning to me more <br>>=3B directly. =
I don't understand the point of the <br>>=3B 'due' or 'owed' aspect. Are=
you sure the word <br>>=3B due in the original has the meaning of someth=
ing that must be paid?<br><br>Yep. The Georgian is /vali/ "debt"=2C from th=
e same root as /movalea/ "to owe". Nevertheless I'm a bit in two minds abou=
t keeping it - it is pretty opaque.<br><br>(poD vay')<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B=
[Okay=2C now I'm confused. Is this a flashback to<br>>=3B Avtandil's rol=
e in administration of the royal<br>>=3B city before he left=2C or by vir=
tue of his great<br>>=3B beauty and conversational skills he suddenly is<=
br>>=3B put in charge of a border city. Did you mean cho'<br>>=3B and n=
ot che' earlier? Did I miss something? Or<br>>=3B am I just failing to gr=
asp the cultural context<br>>=3B that Avtandil simply possesses everythin=
g he passes through?]<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B No=2C as you worked out in the =
next paragraph=2C <br>>=3B 'avtanDIl already had the role of administerin=
g <br>>=3B this city. I'm a little loath to change the <br>>=3B order o=
f presentation of facts in the story=2C but <br>>=3B from what you say=2C=
this might be one that needs <br>>=3B cutting out from here and putting =
earlier in the narrative.<br><br>Qov: <br>>=3B There may be clues in the =
verb forms that make it <br>>=3B clearer in English/Georgian and require =
some more <br>>=3B explanation in Klingon. I know from my novel <br>>=
=3B that one needs more specific scene setting for <br>>=3B flashbacks or=
recollections in Klingon. I <br>>=3B frequently had to make things more=
linear than I would have in English.<br><br>Quite fair enough=2C and that'=
s the kind of thing that I wouldn't ever work out on my own - I'm grateful =
for your insights into things like that.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B loDnalwI' Da=
moj SoH neH vIneH=2C latlh<br>>=3B vIneHbe'qu'=3B tIqwIjDaq lav pochbogh =
Sor'a' 'oH SanwIj'e'.=9B<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B I want only you to become my=
husband. I want no<br>>=3B other. My fate is a bush a great tree plants =
in<br>>=3B my heart. [Or possibly a great tree that planted<br>>=3B a b=
ush in my heart. Trees planting bushes confuse me]>=3B<br><br>jIH:<br>>=
=3B It's another one of the metaphors that runs <br>>=3B throughout the w=
hole bom.<br>(poD mu' law')<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B It's fine. I don't think =
it's the Klingon here <br>>=3B that confuses me. I hope there will be lot=
s of <br>>=3B footnotes saying things like=2C "i.e. Avtandil". I <br>>=
=3B might have followed it better without the six month gap in reading=2C t=
oo.<br><br>Understood. My dissertation is very nearly done and I'm intendin=
g to be more regular with posting 'ay'mey from here=2C so hopefully the nar=
rative thread will be a little more consistent.<br><br>QeS<br></div> =
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