[95491] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] mIl'oD veDDIr SuvwI': 'ay' 15 - pop 'oH ghob'e'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh)
Mon Jan 7 22:32:19 2013
From: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 13:31:47 +1000
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20130106114052.05971478@flyingstart.ca>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
--===============3818089302735088380==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="_9afd165b-16af-47b5-8797-2d58932403da_"
--_9afd165b-16af-47b5-8797-2d58932403da_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
jIjatlhpu':
> If anyone's still reading after my lengthy=20
> absences=2C 'avtanDIl just buttered up roStevan=20
> and promised that he would go to every boundary=20
> of the Kol'vat Region to announce the joyous=20
> news of tIna'tIn's accession to the throne.=20
> Comments=2C criticism=2C and questions are as always most welcome.
jang Qov=2C jatlh:
> vIlaDqangbej.
maj.
> lut chIlpu' De'wI'wIj 'e' vIHaj.
DIvI' Hol chovnatlh? PDF vIghaj=3B qangeHqangqa' DaneHchugh.
> The language is quite dense and has to be=20
> digested slowly in any language.
Very true.
> Today I feel=20
> like translating=2C as a way of showing you what I=20
> get from reading=2C sharing the story with people=20
> who wouldn't otherwise see it=2C and of opening my=20
> own comprehension to scrutiny.
qay'be'=3B an interesting way of doing it.
> 'ay' 15: pop 'oH ghob'e'
> ----------
> >ghIq voDleH vaS 'el SuvwI' net chaw'=3B
>=20
> And then the warrior was admitted to the Hall of the Emperor=3B
>=20
> > 'utlh vuv ghaH 'ej tlho'meH mu'mey jatlh:
>=20
> He respected the patriarch and spoke words of thanks:
>=20
> >=AB'o 'utlh=2C chonaDqu'ta'mo' choquvqu'moHneS! DaH=20
> >nuchevbogh 'IttaHghach ram'e' wovmoHjaj QI'tu'=2C=20
> >'ej qablIj bel belqa'moHlu'pu'bogh vIlegh 'e' chaw'jaj.=BB
>=20
> O Sire=2C your high commendations have honoured me=20
> deeply! Let heaven illuminate the night of=20
> depression which separates us=2C and let me see your face made joyous aga=
in."
>=20
> [Consider Hurgh instead of ram there. Choosing=20
> there between the adjective and noun meanings of=20
> Hurgh would be simpler than those of ram.
I've run across that problem a couple of times and that's an excellent solu=
tion.
> I also=20
> couldn't find a way to cram an second instance of=20
> bel into the English translation in a way that=20
> added anything to the sentence. Does it have a=20
> purpose that eludes me in the Klingon?]
Not really. The English rendition I have is "let me see again in joy your j=
oyful face"=2C and I realise now that he doesn't mean "let me see your joyf=
ul face in joy again". vIchoH:
belbogh qablIj vIlegh jIbeltaHvIS je jIH 'e' chaw'jaj.
=20
> >DeSDajDaq ghaH tlhap roStevan 'ej paw'chu'=3B
>=20
> Rostevan took him in his arms and they=20
> [demonstrated affection in a culturally appropriate manner].
Well put. :)
> >tlhoS puqloDna'Daj rur 'avtanDIl.
>=20
> Avtandil was almost like his real son.
lughchu'.
> >chaH rurbogh chang'eng'e' not tu'lu'pu' =96=20
> >Qorghbogh vay'=2C vay' Qorghlu'pu'bogh joq.
>=20
> A twin like him had never been found--neither=20
> someone who took care of him nor who had been cared for.
> [I wonder if SaH is preferable to Qorgh here. I'm=20
> not really getting the point of Qorghlu'pu'bogh as an asset.]
The pronoun is {chaH}: "A pair like THEM had never been found=2C neither ca=
rer nor cared-for". The English is "like unto them have none been=2C neithe=
r upbringer nor upbrought".
taH:
> >tagha' QamchoH SuvwI'=2C 'ej mej.
>=20
> At last the warrior stood up and left.
>=20
> >luchevlu'law'pu' chaH=3B 'avtanDIlvaD loQ SaQchoH=20
> >valqu'bogh 'ej quvqu'bogh roStevan.
>=20
> They had been separated. The wisest and most=20
> honoured roStevan shed a tear for Avtandil.
>=20
> >vaj mej 'avtanDIl=2C yItchu'bogh 'ej jaqchu'bogh SuvwI' yoH.
>=20
> Thus Avtandil departed=2C a brave warrior who walked out freely and boldl=
y.
>=20
> >cha'maH jaj lengtaH=3B pem law'=2C ram law' je tay'moHchu'.
>=20
> He travelled for twenty days=3B many days and nights indistinguishable.
>=20
> >not tIna'tIn'e'=2C tIqDaj meQmoHtaHbogh be''e'=2C Qubbe'choH=3B
>=20
> He never stopped thinking of Tinatin=2C the woman who enflamed his heart.
>=20
> [Not sure if that's a word=2C but I need to distinguish from inflamed.]
Heh=2C fair enough!
taH:
> qo' bel ghaH tIna'tIn'e'=2C mIp'a' wellu'bogh ghaH.
>=20
> Tinatin was a pleasant world=2C. She was a fortune owed.
Hrm. I see how you got "a pleasant world". I'll change it to {qo'vaD bel} o=
r {qo' bel'a'} (the English is "She is the joy of the world=2C she is treas=
ure and due").
> [Not sure I know what that means=2C but that's what it says.]
>=20
> >Dat jaHDI'=2C lopqu'taH Sep nuvpu'. luqIH 'ej=20
> >lughom chuQun=2C 'ej nobmey wagh nobtaH.
>=20
> Everywhere he went the region's people were=20
> celebrating. They met him and the nobility=20
> assembled and gave him [or possibly her=2C in trust] expensive gifts.
>=20
> >QIt lengbe'bej loD Qup'e'=2C Dat paSbe'qu' jul rurbogh loD'e'=2C nom len=
gtaHvIS.
>=20
> The young man by no means travelled slowly. The=20
> man who was like the sun was everywhere=2C not at all late=2C travelling =
quickly.
>=20
> [Late for what? I know you're working with an overwrought original.]
Yeah=2C pretty much. "The sun-faced had not wasted time in his rapid journe=
y". ...Wasted time for what? I'm not sure. I may change this to something u=
sing moD.
> >nuvpu' lubelqu'choHmoHlu'chu'=2C luqIHDI' 'ej ghaHDaq SumchoHDI'.
>=20
> People became ecstatic on making his acquaintance=2C and when they came n=
ear him.
>=20
> [wejpuH]
>=20
> >wo' veH nuvpu' ghIjlaHchu'bogh veng HoS'e' che' 'avtanDIl=3B
>=20
> Avtandill ruled the powerful city that could terrify the borderland peopl=
e.
> [meqvetlh vIlaj.]
>=20
> >naghna' 'oH yergho'e'=2C chenmoHlu'meH nagh'a' tIn lumutlhlu'ta'.
>=20
> The city wall was known to be stone=2C constructed of large boulders.
>=20
> [I'm not sure that's how mutlh works. Shouldn't=20
> it be mutlhlu'meH nagh'a' tIn lughommoHlu'ta'=2C or the like?]
bIlughchu'. vIchoH.
> >veng loHmeH=2C qaStaHvIS wej jaj vengDaq ratlhtaH=20
> >ghaH chon taghpa'=2C 'ej ghojwI'Daj SermaDInvaD ngupDaj nob 'avtanDIl.
>=20
> He stayed three days to administrate the city=20
> before the hunt=2C and Avtandil gave his cloak to his student Sermadin.
I rely a lot on {ngup} in its metaphorical sense of "authority=2C power" (o=
r "mantle"=2C if you like).
> [Okay=2C now I'm confused. Is this a flashback to=20
> Avtandil's role in administration of the royal=20
> city before he left=2C or by virtue of his great=20
> beauty and conversational skills he suddenly is=20
> put in charge of a border city. Did you mean cho'=20
> and not che' earlier? Did I miss something? Or=20
> am I just failing to grasp the cultural context=20
> that Avtandil simply possesses everything he passes through?]
No=2C as you worked out in the next paragraph=2C 'avtanDIl already had the =
role of administering this city. I'm a little loath to change the order of =
presentation of facts in the story=2C but from what you say=2C this might b=
e one that needs cutting out from here and putting earlier in the narrative=
.
> >nItebHa' toy'wI'vam'e' 'avtanDIl'e' je luQorghlu'pu'=3B
>=20
> Acting together the servant and Avtandil were cared for.
*Had been* (-pu') cared for - that is=2C they were brought up together by r=
oStevan. I'll change this=2C though:
puqpu' chaHtaHvIS toy'wI'vam'e' 'avtanDIl'e' je nItebHa' luQorghlu'pu'.
(naDev poD mu'tlhegh law')
> >mubechqu'moHpu'bogh be'vo' DaH tIqwIj DuQtaH=20
> >bel'a'. tIna'tInvaD muDuQtaH parmaqna'=3B
>=20
> Ecstasy from the woman who has made me suffer so=20
> now pierces my heart. True love for Tinatin infuses my soul.
>=20
> >SeparDu'wIj bIrDaq pubchoH tIqwIj 'Iw tuj=3B wej=20
> >bepwIj vISo'pu'bogh vI'anglaHbe'pu'.
>=20
> In my cold [body parts metaphorized as gemstones]=20
> the warm blood of my heart comes to a boil. I=20
> could not yet reveal the agony I had hidden.]
Um. Which body parts specifically does the metaphor of {SeparDu'} make you =
think of? I was hoping that the simile of "eyes as hard as Separ" from KGT =
would make people think of the eyes (Separ is the standard metaphor I'm usi=
ng throughout for the eyes)=2C but you've just made me realise that there's=
another entirely different reading possible in this instance=2C involving =
the qIvonDu'. You and your dirty mind. :P Is it the qIvonDu' you were think=
ing of?
> >'ach DaH jItulchoHta' 'e' mura' be'vetlh=2C vaj jIbelchoH 'e' Dalegh.
>=20
> But now I have taken hope again and that woman=20
> commanded me=2C thus you see me become pleased.
'e'=2C not 'ej: "But now that woman has commanded that I take hope [again]"=
. I cheated a bit with the prefix trick on a verb that governs 'e'=2C which=
I don't know whether it's possible.
> >mujatlh tIna'tIn: =8Bngabta'bogh SuvwI' bopbogh=20
> >De''e' yIghoj=2C ghIq choghoS=2C 'ej tIqlIj parmaq vIpupmoH.
>=20
> Tinatin told me=2C <Find out about the warrior who=20
> disappeared and then come to me and I will perfect the love in your heart=
.
>=20
> > loDnalwI' Damoj SoH neH vIneH=2C latlh=20
> > vIneHbe'qu'=3B tIqwIjDaq lav pochbogh Sor'a' 'oH SanwIj'e'.=9B
>=20
> I want only you to become my husband. I want no=20
> other. My fate is a bush a great tree plants in=20
> my heart. [Or possibly a great tree that planted=20
> a bush in my heart. Trees planting bushes confuse me]>
It's another one of the metaphors that runs throughout the whole bom. You m=
ight remember that early on=2C 'avtanDIl is compared to a tree (=ABwoch=3B =
Sor rur=BB)=2C and in many places through the original poem he is simply re=
ferred to as "the tree"=2C "the cypress-formed"=2C and such. The shrub is s=
imilarly a metaphor for love here ("plant the violet of hope in my heart=2C=
strew roses"=2C etc.) (though I've only just realised the coincidence that=
{lav} "shrub" and English "love" are homophones - that wasn't intentional)=
. The English version of this line is literally "a planted tree [i.e. Avtan=
dil] falls to my lot"=2C but I deliberately didn't resolve the {-bogh} clau=
se in the Klingon so that either reading (or both) is possible: her fate co=
uld be either the love that the man plants=2C or alternately=2C the man who=
plants the love. (But I'm not deliberately trying to confuse=2C I swear! T=
he metaphor in this poem is just really=2C really dense.)
jIH:
> SKI: 'avtanDIl thanks roStevan for the=20
> commendation=2C goes to make the announcements as=20
> promised=2C and then returns to inform his pupil=20
> SermaDIn that he intends to depart to carry out=20
> the task that tIna'tIn has requested him to do.
Qov:
> You can see that I couldn't tell that he=20
> returned. What did I miss there? Anyone see that more clearly?
Fair enough. I'll go back over it and see if I can make that clearer.
qeSmeylIjmo' qatlho'! ramvam latlh 'ay' vIngeH.
QeS
=
--_9afd165b-16af-47b5-8797-2d58932403da_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
jIjatlhpu':<br>>=3B If anyone's still reading after my lengthy <br><div>&=
gt=3B absences=2C 'avtanDIl just buttered up roStevan <br>>=3B and promis=
ed that he would go to every boundary <br>>=3B of the Kol'vat Region to a=
nnounce the joyous <br>>=3B news of tIna'tIn's accession to the throne. <=
br>>=3B Comments=2C criticism=2C and questions are as always most welcome=
.<br><br>jang Qov=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B vIlaDqangbej.<br><br>maj.<br><br>>=
=3B lut chIlpu' De'wI'wIj 'e' vIHaj.<br><br>DIvI' Hol chovnatlh? PDF vIghaj=
=3B qangeHqangqa' DaneHchugh.<br><br>>=3B The language is quite dense and=
has to be <br>>=3B digested slowly in any language.<br><br>Very true.<br=
><br>>=3B Today I feel <br>>=3B like translating=2C as a way of showing=
you what I <br>>=3B get from reading=2C sharing the story with people <b=
r>>=3B who wouldn't otherwise see it=2C and of opening my <br>>=3B own =
comprehension to scrutiny.<br><br>qay'be'=3B an interesting way of doing it=
.<br><br>>=3B 'ay' 15: pop 'oH ghob'e'<br>>=3B ----------<br>>=3B >=
=3BghIq voDleH vaS 'el SuvwI' net chaw'=3B<br>>=3B <br>>=3B And then th=
e warrior was admitted to the Hall of the Emperor=3B<br>>=3B <br>>=3B &=
gt=3B 'utlh vuv ghaH 'ej tlho'meH mu'mey jatlh:<br>>=3B <br>>=3B He re=
spected the patriarch and spoke words of thanks:<br>>=3B <br>>=3B >=
=3B=AB'o 'utlh=2C chonaDqu'ta'mo' choquvqu'moHneS! DaH <br>>=3B >=3Bnuc=
hevbogh 'IttaHghach ram'e' wovmoHjaj QI'tu'=2C <br>>=3B >=3B'ej qablIj =
bel belqa'moHlu'pu'bogh vIlegh 'e' chaw'jaj.=BB<br>>=3B <br>>=3B O Sire=
=2C your high commendations have honoured me <br>>=3B deeply! Let heaven =
illuminate the night of <br>>=3B depression which separates us=2C and let=
me see your face made joyous again."<br>>=3B <br>>=3B [Consider Hurgh =
instead of ram there. Choosing <br>>=3B there between the adjective and n=
oun meanings of <br>>=3B Hurgh would be simpler than those of ram.<br><br=
>I've run across that problem a couple of times and that's an excellent sol=
ution.<br><br>>=3B I also <br>>=3B couldn't find a way to cram an secon=
d instance of <br>>=3B bel into the English translation in a way that <br=
>>=3B added anything to the sentence. Does it have a <br>>=3B purpose t=
hat eludes me in the Klingon?]<br><br>Not really. The English rendition I h=
ave is "let me see again in joy your joyful face"=2C and I realise now that=
he doesn't mean "let me see your joyful face in joy again". vIchoH:<br><br=
>belbogh qablIj vIlegh jIbeltaHvIS je jIH 'e' chaw'jaj.<br> =3B<br>>=
=3B >=3BDeSDajDaq ghaH tlhap roStevan 'ej paw'chu'=3B<br>>=3B <br>>=
=3B Rostevan took him in his arms and they <br>>=3B [demonstrated affecti=
on in a culturally appropriate manner].<br><br>Well put. :)<br><br>>=3B &=
gt=3BtlhoS puqloDna'Daj rur 'avtanDIl.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B Avtandil was al=
most like his real son.<br><br>lughchu'.<br><br>>=3B >=3BchaH rurbogh c=
hang'eng'e' not tu'lu'pu' =96 <br>>=3B >=3BQorghbogh vay'=2C vay' Qorgh=
lu'pu'bogh joq.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B A twin like him had never been found--=
neither <br>>=3B someone who took care of him nor who had been cared for.=
<br>>=3B [I wonder if SaH is preferable to Qorgh here. I'm <br>>=3B not=
really getting the point of Qorghlu'pu'bogh as an asset.]<br><br>The prono=
un is {chaH}: "A pair like THEM had never been found=2C neither carer nor c=
ared-for". The English is "like unto them have none been=2C neither upbring=
er nor upbrought".<br><br>taH:<br>>=3B >=3Btagha' QamchoH SuvwI'=2C 'ej=
mej.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B At last the warrior stood up and left.<br>>=3B=
<br>>=3B >=3Bluchevlu'law'pu' chaH=3B 'avtanDIlvaD loQ SaQchoH <br>>=
=3B >=3Bvalqu'bogh 'ej quvqu'bogh roStevan.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B They had=
been separated. The wisest and most <br>>=3B honoured roStevan shed a te=
ar for Avtandil.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B >=3Bvaj mej 'avtanDIl=2C yItchu'bog=
h 'ej jaqchu'bogh SuvwI' yoH.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B Thus Avtandil departed=
=2C a brave warrior who walked out freely and boldly.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B =
>=3Bcha'maH jaj lengtaH=3B pem law'=2C ram law' je tay'moHchu'.<br>>=3B=
<br>>=3B He travelled for twenty days=3B many days and nights indistingu=
ishable.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B >=3Bnot tIna'tIn'e'=2C tIqDaj meQmoHtaHbogh=
be''e'=2C Qubbe'choH=3B<br>>=3B <br>>=3B He never stopped thinking of =
Tinatin=2C the woman who enflamed his heart.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B [Not sure=
if that's a word=2C but I need to distinguish from inflamed.]<br><br>Heh=
=2C fair enough!<br><br>taH:<br>>=3B qo' bel ghaH tIna'tIn'e'=2C mIp'a' w=
ellu'bogh ghaH.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B Tinatin was a pleasant world=2C. She w=
as a fortune owed.<br><br>Hrm. I see how you got "a pleasant world". I'll c=
hange it to {qo'vaD bel} or {qo' bel'a'} (the English is "She is the joy of=
the world=2C she is treasure and due").<br><br>>=3B [Not sure I know wha=
t that means=2C but that's what it says.]<br>>=3B <br>>=3B >=3BDat ja=
HDI'=2C lopqu'taH Sep nuvpu'. luqIH 'ej <br>>=3B >=3Blughom chuQun=2C '=
ej nobmey wagh nobtaH.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B Everywhere he went the region's=
people were <br>>=3B celebrating. They met him and the nobility <br>>=
=3B assembled and gave him [or possibly her=2C in trust] expensive gifts.<b=
r>>=3B <br>>=3B >=3BQIt lengbe'bej loD Qup'e'=2C Dat paSbe'qu' jul ru=
rbogh loD'e'=2C nom lengtaHvIS.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B The young man by no me=
ans travelled slowly. The <br>>=3B man who was like the sun was everywher=
e=2C not at all late=2C travelling quickly.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B [Late for =
what? I know you're working with an overwrought original.]<br><br>Yeah=2C =
pretty much. "The sun-faced had not wasted time in his rapid journey". ...W=
asted time for what? I'm not sure. I may change this to something using moD=
.<br><br>>=3B >=3Bnuvpu' lubelqu'choHmoHlu'chu'=2C luqIHDI' 'ej ghaHDaq=
SumchoHDI'.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B People became ecstatic on making his acqu=
aintance=2C and when they came near him.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B [wejpuH]<br>&=
gt=3B <br>>=3B >=3Bwo' veH nuvpu' ghIjlaHchu'bogh veng HoS'e' che' 'avt=
anDIl=3B<br>>=3B <br>>=3B Avtandill ruled the powerful city that could =
terrify the borderland people.<br>>=3B [meqvetlh vIlaj.]<br>>=3B <br>&g=
t=3B >=3Bnaghna' 'oH yergho'e'=2C chenmoHlu'meH nagh'a' tIn lumutlhlu'ta'=
.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B The city wall was known to be stone=2C constructed o=
f large boulders.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B [I'm not sure that's how mutlh works=
. Shouldn't <br>>=3B it be mutlhlu'meH nagh'a' tIn lughommoHlu'ta'=2C or =
the like?]<br><br>bIlughchu'. vIchoH.<br><br>>=3B >=3Bveng loHmeH=2C qa=
StaHvIS wej jaj vengDaq ratlhtaH <br>>=3B >=3BghaH chon taghpa'=2C 'ej =
ghojwI'Daj SermaDInvaD ngupDaj nob 'avtanDIl.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B He staye=
d three days to administrate the city <br>>=3B before the hunt=2C and Avt=
andil gave his cloak to his student Sermadin.<br><br>I rely a lot on {ngup}=
in its metaphorical sense of "authority=2C power" (or "mantle"=2C if you l=
ike).<br><br>>=3B [Okay=2C now I'm confused. Is this a flashback to <br>&=
gt=3B Avtandil's role in administration of the royal <br>>=3B city before=
he left=2C or by virtue of his great <br>>=3B beauty and conversational =
skills he suddenly is <br>>=3B put in charge of a border city. Did you me=
an cho' <br>>=3B and not che' earlier? Did I miss something? Or <br>>=
=3B am I just failing to grasp the cultural context <br>>=3B that Avtandi=
l simply possesses everything he passes through?]<br><br>No=2C as you worke=
d out in the next paragraph=2C 'avtanDIl already had the role of administer=
ing this city. I'm a little loath to change the order of presentation of fa=
cts in the story=2C but from what you say=2C this might be one that needs c=
utting out from here and putting earlier in the narrative.<br><br>>=3B &g=
t=3BnItebHa' toy'wI'vam'e' 'avtanDIl'e' je luQorghlu'pu'=3B<br>>=3B <br>&=
gt=3B Acting together the servant and Avtandil were cared for.<br><br>*Had =
been* (-pu') cared for - that is=2C they were brought up together by roStev=
an. I'll change this=2C though:<br><br>puqpu' chaHtaHvIS toy'wI'vam'e' 'avt=
anDIl'e' je nItebHa' luQorghlu'pu'.<br><br>(naDev poD mu'tlhegh law')<br><b=
r>>=3B >=3Bmubechqu'moHpu'bogh be'vo' DaH tIqwIj DuQtaH <br>>=3B >=
=3Bbel'a'. tIna'tInvaD muDuQtaH parmaqna'=3B<br>>=3B <br>>=3B Ecstasy f=
rom the woman who has made me suffer so <br>>=3B now pierces my heart. Tr=
ue love for Tinatin infuses my soul.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B >=3BSeparDu'wIj=
bIrDaq pubchoH tIqwIj 'Iw tuj=3B wej <br>>=3B >=3BbepwIj vISo'pu'bogh =
vI'anglaHbe'pu'.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B In my cold [body parts metaphorized a=
s gemstones] <br>>=3B the warm blood of my heart comes to a boil. I <br>&=
gt=3B could not yet reveal the agony I had hidden.]<br><br>Um. Which body p=
arts specifically does the metaphor of {SeparDu'} make you think of? I was =
hoping that the simile of "eyes as hard as Separ" from KGT would make peopl=
e think of the eyes (Separ is the standard metaphor I'm using throughout fo=
r the eyes)=2C but you've just made me realise that there's another entirel=
y different reading possible in this instance=2C involving the qIvonDu'. Yo=
u and your dirty mind. :P Is it the qIvonDu' you were thinking of?<br><br>&=
gt=3B >=3B'ach DaH jItulchoHta' 'e' mura' be'vetlh=2C vaj jIbelchoH 'e' D=
alegh.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B But now I have taken hope again and that woman =
<br>>=3B commanded me=2C thus you see me become pleased.<br><br>'e'=2C no=
t 'ej: "But now that woman has commanded that I take hope [again]". I cheat=
ed a bit with the prefix trick on a verb that governs 'e'=2C which I don't =
know whether it's possible.<br><br>>=3B >=3Bmujatlh tIna'tIn: =8Bngabta=
'bogh SuvwI' bopbogh <br>>=3B >=3BDe''e' yIghoj=2C ghIq choghoS=2C 'ej =
tIqlIj parmaq vIpupmoH.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B Tinatin told me=2C <=3BFind =
out about the warrior who <br>>=3B disappeared and then come to me and I =
will perfect the love in your heart.<br>>=3B <br>>=3B >=3B loDnalwI'=
Damoj SoH neH vIneH=2C latlh <br>>=3B >=3B vIneHbe'qu'=3B tIqwIjDaq la=
v pochbogh Sor'a' 'oH SanwIj'e'.=9B<br>>=3B <br>>=3B I want only you to=
become my husband. I want no <br>>=3B other. My fate is a bush a great t=
ree plants in <br>>=3B my heart. [Or possibly a great tree that planted <=
br>>=3B a bush in my heart. Trees planting bushes confuse me]>=3B<br><b=
r>It's another one of the metaphors that runs throughout the whole bom. You=
might remember that early on=2C 'avtanDIl is compared to a tree (=ABwoch=
=3B Sor rur=BB)=2C and in many places through the original poem he is simpl=
y referred to as "the tree"=2C "the cypress-formed"=2C and such. The shrub =
is similarly a metaphor for love here ("plant the violet of hope in my hear=
t=2C strew roses"=2C etc.) (though I've only just realised the coincidence =
that {lav} "shrub" and English "love" are homophones - that wasn't intentio=
nal). The English version of this line is literally "a planted tree [i.e. A=
vtandil] falls to my lot"=2C but I deliberately didn't resolve the {-bogh} =
clause in the Klingon so that either reading (or both) is possible: her fat=
e could be either the love that the man plants=2C or alternately=2C the man=
who plants the love. (But I'm not deliberately trying to confuse=2C I swea=
r! The metaphor in this poem is just really=2C really dense.)<br><br>jIH:<b=
r>>=3B SKI: 'avtanDIl thanks roStevan for the <br>>=3B commendation=2C =
goes to make the announcements as <br>>=3B promised=2C and then returns t=
o inform his pupil <br>>=3B SermaDIn that he intends to depart to carry o=
ut <br>>=3B the task that tIna'tIn has requested him to do.<br><br>Qov:<b=
r>>=3B You can see that I couldn't tell that he <br>>=3B returned. What=
did I miss there? Anyone see that more clearly?<br><br>Fair enough. I'll g=
o back over it and see if I can make that clearer.<br><br>qeSmeylIjmo' qatl=
ho'! ramvam latlh 'ay' vIngeH.<br><br>QeS<br></div> </div></body=
>
</html>=
--_9afd165b-16af-47b5-8797-2d58932403da_--
--===============3818089302735088380==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============3818089302735088380==--
