[95068] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Trains
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Thu Nov 22 18:11:37 2012
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>, "tlhingan-hol@kli.org"
<tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 23:11:05 +0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY166-W443169A29842E0E6D4D5C9AA5B0@phx.gbl>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Aye, I'm aware of the rule; it's just not something I'd take for granted wo=
rks in a relative phrase.
In cases like {Qel'e' DaH yISam}, you can more or less think of {DaH yISam}=
as its own sentence, {Qel'e'} being a context descriptor. [If they'd alrea=
dy been talking about doctors, they might've been able to say simply =ABDaH=
yISam!=BB]
I gues you can sort of see it that way with the p'b sentence, but it's not =
something I'd've taken for granted.
________________________________________
From: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh [qeslagh@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 23:53
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Trains
ghItlhpu' Felix, jatlh:
> I believe this was first seen in paq'batlh, with the phrase {lujang maS=
=92e=92 loQ So=92be=92bogh QIb lurur} ("They reply, shaped as the crescent =
moon.")
> This phrase rather interestignly shows {loQ} coming after the object; not=
sure if that's allowed because of the -'e', or some undiscovered grammatic=
al rule, or just fancy language.
This has been rehashed several times on the list; this very pattern is expl=
icitly discussed in the TKD Addendum, section 6.8.
As for "undiscovered grammatical rule", my personal belief is that the patt=
ern can be simply interpreted using rules we already have. I think {loQ} ca=
n come after the object here because {-'e'} is a Type 5 suffix, and like al=
l nouns with Type 5 suffixes (see TKD section 6.1), it is possible to put a=
n {-'e'}-marked noun in the so-called "header" position, at the beginning o=
f the sentence: cf. {qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH Dun law' Hoch Dun puS} "you would=
be the greatest warrior in the galaxy" from, I believe, ST5.
QeS
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