[94638] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] mIl'oD veDDIr SuvwI': 'ay' cha' - 13. tIqDaq
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh)
Mon Sep 10 07:29:40 2012
From: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:29:26 +1000
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120824171645.0531b3b0@flyingstart.ca>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
--===============7350373575961706686==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="_118137c6-0a89-4b3c-ab7f-e52a2af210c3_"
--_118137c6-0a89-4b3c-ab7f-e52a2af210c3_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
not QInvam vIjang DaH 'e' vItlhoj! DaH vIjang 'ej tugh 'ay'Hom chu' vIngeH.
jIjatlhpu':
> mu'mey 'IH wIvchu'bogh lo' be' 'avtanDIl
> jangDI'. jatlh: =ABjIHDaq bIHoptaHqu' 'e'
> vISovbej=2C 'ach qaStaHvIS wa' lup neH
> bIjatlhqangbe' 'e' vISIv je. 'ach
> mupIvHa'choHmoHbogh wanI''e'=2C tlhoS muroplaw'bogh wanI''e'=2C DaH qaja'=
nIS.
mujang Qov=2C jatlh:
> I'm having some trouble here. The last thing
> 'avtanDIl said was =ABvaj Du'IQmoHpu'bogh wanI'=2C
> DuQuchqa'moHlaHbogh mIw je HIjatlh.=BB So I'm
> expecting an answer from tIna'tIn=2C but I
> interpret that as 'avtanDIl speaking. i.e.
> Avtandil did not use perfectly chosen flowery
> words when he answered.
jIH:
> It's lo'_be'=2C with a space. "The woman used=20
> perfectly chosen flowery words when she answered=20
> Avtandil". I'll fix this with punctuation or a suffix or something.
Qov:
> yaj. A comma between lo' be' and 'avtanDIl would suffice.
vItI'.
jIH:
> qo' Hoch HeHDaq DanejlI' 'e' qaqoy'=3B chal veHDaq
> DajaHnISchugh=2C bIruch 'ej DaSam 'e' qaqoy'. DaH
> choghoSpu'pa' qajatlhlaHbe'pu'=2C 'ach Daqvam Hopvo'
Qov:
> qatlh Hop DaqDaj? jIyajbe'.
jIH:
> Hoppu' DaqDaj=2C tIna'tInDaq SumlaHbe'pu'mo' 'avtanDIl. jIchuHnIS'a'?
Qov:
> I guess I need to translate again to show my understanding ...
> I beg of you to search every corner of the earth.=20
> If you must go to the edge of the sky=2C do it=2C and=20
> I beg you to find him. Now=2C before you came to=20
> me=2C I couldn't speak to you=2C but from this distant place ...
> They can't get much closer to one another than=20
> they are now and retain a family rating. Which=20
> distant place is she talking about?
She's saying that before 'avtanDIl came to her=2C the place she was in was =
distant from him. I've just realised I misplaced the Daqvam Hopvo' part. Le=
t me know if this is better:
DaH choghoSpu'pa' qajatlhlaHbe'pu'=2C 'ach jIHvaD DuDuQtaH parmaq Daqvam Ho=
pvo' 'e' vItu'.
jIH:
> =ABcha' ngoDmo' DuQaH Qu'vam qachavmoHbogh.
Qov:
> chavmoH'a'? Qu' nobmo' chavmoH'a'?
jIH:
> The lack of tense here's probably obscuring the=20
> meaning. I might recast to go something with pIH.
Qov:
> nIteb chavnISlaw' 'avtanDIl. chavmoHlaHbe'law' tIna'tIn.
The English is "this service of mine which I bid thee do". So in your origi=
nal question=2C yes=2C she is {chavmoH}ing him because she has laid the tas=
k upon him. I'll take chav out and replace it=2C probably with ta': Qu'vam =
qata'moHbogh "this mission which I make you do". Is that better?
jIH:
> 'ej qaghom=2C jul vIrur. vaj HIghomqa'. qaStaHvIS wej DIS=2C
Qov:
> wej DIS! ghImbej!
jIH:
> tuv'eghnISmoHba'!
Qov:
> I guess I'd better get used to that=20
> 'egh+stuff+moH format if I'm going to read your=20
> stuff.
Here I intended it for emphasis - "he needs to make himself be patient" - b=
ut yes=2C I do use -'eghmoH a lot. The byproduct is that occasionally type =
2s or 3s pop in there as well=2C and I understand that gets complicated. Bu=
t in KGT it says that imperatives of quality verbs=2C such as tuj and taD=
=2C generally take -'egh and -moH: so it's more idiomatic to say yItuj'eghm=
oH "make yourself hot!" than it is to say yItuj "be hot!". I'm not trying t=
o tell anyone what they should do with their own quality verbs=2C but KGT s=
ays this is the case so it's what I do=2C and things like yItuj'eghchoHmoH =
pop out as a result. I derail when I run across things like -taHqu'vIS and =
-taHneSvIS for the same reason.
> I wonder what I do repeatedly that people=20
> find particularly stumbleworthy. Other than typo like an elephant.
I actually find your typos really interesting. Some are simple miskeyings=
=2C but then there are the more intriguing ones like -Daj for -Daq and such=
that show how deeply seated your facility with the language is.
QeS
=
--_118137c6-0a89-4b3c-ab7f-e52a2af210c3_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
}
--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
not QInvam vIjang DaH 'e' vItlhoj! DaH vIjang 'ej tugh 'ay'Hom chu' vIngeH.=
<br><br><div><div id=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div>jIjatlhpu':<br>>=3B mu=
'mey 'IH wIvchu'bogh lo' be' 'avtanDIl<br>>=3B jangDI'. jatlh: =ABjIHDaq =
bIHoptaHqu' 'e'<br>>=3B vISovbej=2C 'ach qaStaHvIS wa' lup neH<br>>=3B =
bIjatlhqangbe' 'e' vISIv je. 'ach<br>>=3B mupIvHa'choHmoHbogh wanI''e'=2C=
tlhoS muroplaw'bogh wanI''e'=2C DaH qaja'nIS.<br><br>mujang Qov=2C jatlh:<=
br>>=3B I'm having some trouble here. The last thing<br>>=3B 'avtanDIl =
said was =ABvaj Du'IQmoHpu'bogh wanI'=2C<br>>=3B DuQuchqa'moHlaHbogh mIw =
je HIjatlh.=BB So I'm<br>>=3B expecting an answer from tIna'tIn=2C but I<=
br>>=3B interpret that as 'avtanDIl speaking. i.e.<br>>=3B Avtandil did=
not use perfectly chosen flowery<br>>=3B words when he answered.<br><br>=
jIH:<br>>=3B It's lo'_be'=2C with a space. "The woman used <br>>=3B per=
fectly chosen flowery words when she answered <br>>=3B Avtandil". I'll fi=
x this with punctuation or a suffix or something.<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B yaj=
. A comma between lo' be' and 'avtanDIl would suffice.<br><br>vItI'.<br><br=
>jIH:<br>>=3B qo' Hoch HeHDaq DanejlI' 'e' qaqoy'=3B chal veHDaq<br>>=
=3B DajaHnISchugh=2C bIruch 'ej DaSam 'e' qaqoy'. DaH<br>>=3B choghoSpu'p=
a' qajatlhlaHbe'pu'=2C 'ach Daqvam Hopvo'<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B qatlh Hop D=
aqDaj? jIyajbe'.<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B Hoppu' DaqDaj=2C tIna'tInDaq SumlaHb=
e'pu'mo' 'avtanDIl. jIchuHnIS'a'?<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B I guess I need to t=
ranslate again to show my understanding ...<br>>=3B I beg of you to searc=
h every corner of the earth. <br>>=3B If you must go to the edge of the s=
ky=2C do it=2C and <br>>=3B I beg you to find him. Now=2C before you came=
to <br>>=3B me=2C I couldn't speak to you=2C but from this distant place=
...<br>>=3B They can't get much closer to one another than <br>>=3B th=
ey are now and retain a family rating. Which <br>>=3B distant place is sh=
e talking about?<br><br>She's saying that before 'avtanDIl came to her=2C t=
he place she was in was distant from him. I've just realised I misplaced th=
e Daqvam Hopvo' part. Let me know if this is better:<br><br>DaH choghoSpu'p=
a' qajatlhlaHbe'pu'=2C 'ach jIHvaD DuDuQtaH parmaq Daqvam Hopvo' 'e' vItu'.=
<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B =ABcha' ngoDmo' DuQaH Qu'vam qachavmoHbogh.<br><br>Q=
ov:<br>>=3B chavmoH'a'? Qu' nobmo' chavmoH'a'?<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B The =
lack of tense here's probably obscuring the <br>>=3B meaning. I might rec=
ast to go something with pIH.<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B nIteb chavnISlaw' 'avta=
nDIl. chavmoHlaHbe'law' tIna'tIn.<br><br>The English is "this service of mi=
ne which I bid thee do". So in your original question=2C yes=2C she is {cha=
vmoH}ing him because she has laid the task upon him. I'll take chav out and=
replace it=2C probably with ta': Qu'vam qata'moHbogh "this mission which I=
make you do". Is that better?<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B 'ej qaghom=2C jul vIru=
r. vaj HIghomqa'. qaStaHvIS wej DIS=2C<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B wej DIS! ghImb=
ej!<br><br>jIH:<br>>=3B tuv'eghnISmoHba'!<br><br>Qov:<br>>=3B I guess I=
'd better get used to that <br>>=3B 'egh+stuff+moH format if I'm going to=
read your <br>>=3B stuff.<br><br>Here I intended it for emphasis - "he n=
eeds to make himself be patient" - but yes=2C I do use -'eghmoH a lot. The =
byproduct is that occasionally type 2s or 3s pop in there as well=2C and I =
understand that gets complicated. But in KGT it says that imperatives of qu=
ality verbs=2C such as tuj and taD=2C generally take -'egh and -moH: so it'=
s more idiomatic to say yItuj'eghmoH "make yourself hot!" than it is to say=
yItuj "be hot!". I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should do with th=
eir own quality verbs=2C but KGT says this is the case so it's what I do=2C=
and things like yItuj'eghchoHmoH pop out as a result. I derail when I run =
across things like -taHqu'vIS and -taHneSvIS for the same reason.<br><br>&g=
t=3B I wonder what I do repeatedly that people <br>>=3B find particularly=
stumbleworthy. Other than typo like an elephant.<br><br>I actually find yo=
ur typos really interesting. Some are simple miskeyings=2C but then there a=
re the more intriguing ones like -Daj for -Daq and such that show how deepl=
y seated your facility with the language is.<br><br>QeS<br></div> =
</div></body>
</html>=
--_118137c6-0a89-4b3c-ab7f-e52a2af210c3_--
--===============7350373575961706686==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============7350373575961706686==--
