[94209] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] A request for assistance
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qurgh lungqIj)
Mon Jul 30 15:18:55 2012
In-Reply-To: <ACF6622D959A8842A81E4471BA56A7E001EE2320@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu>
From: qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 15:18:11 -0400
To: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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I sent Kate a message off list with instructions for making pIqaD images
quickly. Hopefully that will help her out.
qurgh
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote=
:
> Some of you may remember this request from a couple of years ago. Would
> someone please contact Kate OFF LIST and help her choose a suitable {pIqa=
D}
> font for her tattoo. Her e-mail address is ktroseoscarson@gmail.com. **=
*
> *
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks,****
>
> ** **
>
> --****
>
> Voragh****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Kate, ****
>
> ** **
>
> I=E2=80=99m afraid I don't really know much about the available fonts for=
=E2=80=9CpIqaD=E2=80=9D
> (as the =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D Klingon writing system is called), but I=
=E2=80=99ll be happy to
> forward your post to the Klingon Language Institute=E2=80=99s mailing lis=
t and ask
> for someone to contact you. Let me know if you haven=E2=80=99t heard any=
thing in a
> few days.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Kate Oscarson [mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, July 27, 2012 11:28 PM****
>
> Hello Mr. Boozer,
>
> I certainly took your advice, and did not rush into anything. It is now
> two years later, and I am ready to move forward with this project. After
> reflecting, I think I would like to use the word "roS," regardless of the
> other context for this word. The flower itself is important, since it is
> literally my name and a family name. I think that the family connection =
is
> important, even if my family name does mean "lick" or "toe."
>
> May I make another request of you, in that case? I would like to make
> sure I translate this correctly into the appropriate characters. Would y=
ou
> be able to assist me in this request?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Kate****
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
> wrote:****
>
> I'd be happy to assist, but as I tell everyone who wants a Klingon
> tattoo: Don't rush it before you're completely happy with it. Once you'=
ve
> been inked it's too late to change a bad translation! (Don't laugh; it's
> happened.)****
>
> As for vocabulary, there're a couple of options for "thorn". You could
> say {DuQwI'Hom} "(small) spike, spikelet":****
>
> A "*spike"* is a {DuQwI'} and the small spikes on the *d'k tahg*[pommel=
]
> ****
>
> are usually called {DuQwI'Hommey} ("little spikes"). [KGT p.61]****
>
> ****
>
> or *{por jej} "sharp leaf". In fact Okrand described the {naHjej} as:***=
*
>
> ****
>
> a thistle (a flower with dangerously sharp leaves) is a {naHjej}****
>
> (literally, "*sharp fruit"*)" [KGT p.88]****
>
> * *****
>
> Because "rose" is an Earth flower, you wouldn't expect there to be a
> Klingon word for it. As we often say on the KLI mailing list in such
> cases: "What's Klingon for 'pizza'?" (As it happens, there's also no
> known word for "flower" =E2=80=93 someone once came up with *{tI 'IH}, l=
iterally
> "beautiful vegetation".) Generally we simply transcribe such words using
> Okrand's Klingon orthography - e.g. *{roS} =E2=80=93 but I wouldn't do th=
at in this
> case since {roS} is phonetically identical to 1) the verb "lick"; 2) the
> verb "use the third toe"; and the {roS} found in {roSHa'moH} "paralyze
> (meaning unclear).****
>
> ****
>
> On the other hand we do know the names of a few specific Klingon flowers
> if you'd like to choose one:****
>
> ****
>
> {chal}* * - a type of flower (SAREK [pro-novel]):****
>
> ****
>
> "When you are my wife, your beauty will blossom like *chal* flowers in
> spring." ****
>
> (Karg in the pro-novel SAREK by Michael Jan Friedman, p.58)****
>
> ****
>
> *{*tlhoghnI'} * - *throgni*****
>
> * *****
>
> Night-blooming *Throgni* is a fragrant Klingon flower. "Worf found the
> smell of a Quazulu VIII virus similar to the Throgni." ("Star Trek
> Encyclopedia", p.219; cf. TNG "Angel One"]) Worf didn't say that Throgni
> had romantic overtones (like the Earth rose), but I thought he had a
> wistful expression on his face during the scene. Note that it seems to
> contain the morphemes {tlhogh} "marriage" and {nI'} "be long/lengthy in
> duration". ****
>
> ****
>
> {tlheng'IQ} - *thranx*****
>
> ****
>
> It's a Klingon plant that flowers once every eight years (described in th=
e
> pro-novel KAHLESS also by Michael Jan Friedman, p.60). This is a brand-n=
ew
> official spelling Okrand coined for the opera {'u'}, which debuted in the
> Netherlands just last month. ****
>
> ****
>
> * *****
>
> As for the phrase, we have a few options. Using {naHjej} for example we
> could translate it as a sentence:****
>
> ****
>
> DuQwI'Hom ghajbe' naHjej****
>
> a thistle doesn't have a thorn (or, thorns)****
>
> ****
>
> DuQwI'Hom Hutlh naHjej****
>
> a thistle lacks a thorn (or, thorns)****
>
> ****
>
> or as a phrase:****
>
> ****
>
> DuQwI'Hom ghajbe'bogh naHjej'e'****
>
> thistle that does not have a thorn (or, thorns)****
>
> thistle not having a thorn (or, thorns)****
>
> ****
>
> DuQwI'Hom Hutlhbogh naHjej'e'****
>
> thistle that lacks a thorn (or, thorns)****
>
> thistle lacking a thorn (or, thorns)****
>
> ****
>
> I said "a thorn (or, thorns)" because the plural suffix {-mey} is never
> required in Klingon as you probably know.****
>
> ****
>
> Well that's enough to start with. I'm not entirely sure what "without
> thorn the rose" is supposed to imply, so I may have misunderstood Milton
> here. Not to mention what the phrase means to you. I'm sure you have
> questions so don't hesitate to ask. We can tweek the translation until
> you're completely happy with it. ****
>
> ****
>
> Qapla'!****
>
> ****
>
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* Kate Oscarson [mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 27, 2010 1:53 PM****
>
> I am writing to you today in hopes of assistance in a Klingon translation
> project. I retrieved your email address off of the Klingon Language
> Institute Discussion Board, and am hopeful that you might be able to help
> me, or at least point me in the right direction. I have already had emai=
ls
> bounce back as "undeliverable" for all administrator addresses at the KLI
> website. I am hoping to translate "Without Thorn the Rose" (Milton,
> Paradise Lost). I have done the research and checked many resources,
> however I am unable to find the words "rose" and "thorn" defined either
> at the KLI or at other Klingon translation websites. Would you be able t=
o
> assist?
>
> To add a personal note, in the hopes that it may help my cause, I am in
> the process of having a large rose-vine tattooed across my back as a way =
of
> paying respect to my family's honor (I am the 13th rose in a family of
> strong, proud, honorable women.) I would like to add this phrase to my
> tattoo. I think that the Klingon Gods would have approved, had they not
> all been slain by their creations.
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Katherine Rose Oscarson ****
>
>
>
>
> --
> ~Kate Oscarson
> ktroseoscarson@gmail.com
> www.wilocavore.blogspot.com****
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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I sent Kate a message off list with instructions for making pIqaD images qu=
ickly. Hopefully that will help her out.<div><br></div><div>qurgh<br><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Steven Boozer <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" target=3D"_blank=
">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d">Some of you may remember this request from a couple of years ag=
o.=C2=A0 Would someone please contact Kate OFF LIST and help
her choose a suitable {pIqaD} font for her tattoo.=C2=A0 Her e-mail addres=
s is <a href=3D"mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">
ktroseoscarson@gmail.com</a>.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u><=
/u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1f497d">--<u></u><u></u><=
/span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1f497d">Voragh<u></u><u><=
/u></span></font></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"border:none;padding:0in"><font size=3D"4" c=
olor=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d">Kate,
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d">I=E2=80=99m afraid I don't really know much about the avail=
able fonts for =E2=80=9CpIqaD=E2=80=9D (as the =E2=80=9Cnative=E2=80=9D Kli=
ngon writing system is
called), but I=E2=80=99ll be happy to forward your post to the Klingon Lan=
guage Institute=E2=80=99s mailing list and ask for someone to contact you.=
=C2=A0 Let me know if you haven=E2=80=99t heard anything in a few days.<u><=
/u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><font face=3D"Taho=
ma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face=3D"Tahom=
a"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif"">
Kate Oscarson [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">ktroseoscarson@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 27, 2012 =
11:28 PM<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face=
=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hello Mr. Boozer,<br>
<br>
I certainly took your advice, and did not rush into anything.=C2=A0 It is n=
ow two years later, and I am ready to move forward with this project.=C2=A0=
After reflecting, I think I would like to use the word "roS," re=
gardless of the other context for this word.=C2=A0 The flower
itself is important, since it is literally my name and a family name.=C2=
=A0 I think that the family connection is important, even if my family name=
does mean "lick" or "toe."=C2=A0
<br>
<br>
May I make another request of you, in that case?=C2=A0 I would like to make=
sure I translate this correctly into the appropriate characters.=C2=A0 Wou=
ld you be able to assist me in this request?<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
<br>
Kate<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Steven Boozer <<=
a href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" target=3D"_blank">sboozer@uchicago.e=
du</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1f497d">I'd be happy to assist, but as I tell everyone who wants
a Klingon tattoo:=C2=A0 Don't rush it before you're completely hap=
py with it.=C2=A0 Once you've been inked it's too late to change a =
bad translation!=C2=A0 (Don't laugh; it's happened.)</span></font><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1f497d">As for vocabulary, there're a couple of options for "=
;thorn".=C2=A0
You could say {</span></font><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">DuQwI'Hom=
} "(small) spike, spikelet":</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0 A "<i><s=
pan style=3D"font-style:italic">spike"</span></i> is a {DuQwI'} an=
d the small
spikes on the <i><span style=3D"font-style:italic">d'k tahg</span></i>=
[pommel]</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0are usua=
lly called {DuQwI'Hommey} ("little spikes").=C2=A0 [KGT p.61]=
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">or *{por je=
j} "sharp leaf".=C2=A0 In fact Okrand described the {</span></fon=
t><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial","sans-serif"">naHjej}
as:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0a thistle (a flower with danger=
ously sharp leaves) is a {naHjej}</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0(literally, "<i><span styl=
e=3D"font-style:italic">sharp fruit"</span></i>)" =C2=A0[KGT p.88=
]</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<b><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif";font-weight:bold">=C2=A0</span></font></b=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1f497d">Because "rose" is an Earth flower, you wouldn't=
expect
there to be a Klingon word for it.=C2=A0 As we often say on the KLI mailin=
g list in such cases: =C2=A0"What's Klingon for 'pizza'?&q=
uot;=C2=A0 (As it happens, there's also no known word for "flower&=
quot; =E2=80=93 someone once came up with =C2=A0*{tI 'IH}, literally &q=
uot;beautiful vegetation".) =C2=A0Generally
we simply transcribe such words using Okrand's Klingon orthography - e=
.g. *{roS} =E2=80=93 but I wouldn't do that in this case since {roS} is=
phonetically identical to 1) the verb "lick"; 2) the verb "=
use the third toe"; and the {roS} found in {roSHa'moH} "paral=
yze
(meaning unclear).</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1f497d">On the other hand we do know the names of a few specific
Klingon flowers if you'd like to choose one:</span></font><u></u><u></=
u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">{chal}<i><span style=
=3D"font-style:italic">
</span></i>=C2=A0- a type of flower (SAREK [pro-novel]):</span></font><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0 "When yo=
u are my wife, your beauty will blossom like *chal* flowers in spring."=
;
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Karg i=
n the pro-novel SAREK by Michael Jan Friedman, p.58)</span></font><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">*{<i><span style=3D"=
font-style:italic">tlhoghnI'}
</span></i>=C2=A0- <i><span style=3D"font-style:italic">throgni</span></i><=
/span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-style:italic"=
>=C2=A0</span></font></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Night-blooming
<i><span style=3D"font-style:italic">Throgni</span></i> is a fragrant Kling=
on flower. "Worf found the smell of a Quazulu VIII virus similar to th=
e Throgni." ("Star Trek Encyclopedia", p.219; cf. TNG "=
Angel One"])=C2=A0 Worf didn't say that Throgni had romantic overt=
ones
(like the Earth rose), but I thought he had a wistful expression on his fa=
ce during the scene.=C2=A0 Note that it seems to contain the morphemes {tlh=
ogh} "marriage" and {nI'} "be long/lengthy in duration&q=
uot;.=C2=A0
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">{tlheng'IQ}=C2=
=A0 -=C2=A0
<i><span style=3D"font-style:italic">thranx</span></i></span></font><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">It's a Klingon p=
lant that flowers once every eight years (described in the pro-novel
KAHLESS also by Michael Jan Friedman, p.60).=C2=A0 This is a brand-new off=
icial spelling Okrand coined for the opera {'u'}, which debuted in =
the Netherlands just last month.=C2=A0
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt">
<i><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"A=
rial","sans-serif";font-style:italic">=C2=A0</span></font></=
i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">As for the phrase, we have a few options.=
=C2=A0 Using {naHjej} for example we could translate it as a sentence:</spa=
n></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 DuQwI'Hom ghajbe' naHj=
ej</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0 =C2=A0a thistle doesn't have a t=
horn (or, thorns)</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 DuQwI'Hom Hutlh naHjej</sp=
an></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 a thistle lacks a thorn (or, t=
horns)</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">or as a phrase:</span></font><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 DuQwI'Hom ghajbe'bogh =
naHjej'e'</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 thistle that does not have a t=
horn (or, thorns)</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 thistle not having a thorn (or=
, thorns)</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 DuQwI'Hom Hutlhbogh naHjej=
'e'</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 thistle that lacks a thorn (or=
, thorns)</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0=C2=A0 thistle lacking a thorn (or, t=
horns)</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">I said "a thorn (or, thorns)" bec=
ause the plural suffix {-mey} is never required in Klingon as you probably =
know.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l","sans-serif"">=C2=A0
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Well that's enou=
gh to start with.=C2=A0
</span></font><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497=
d">I'm not entirely sure what
</span></font><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif"">"without thorn the rose&=
quot; is supposed to imply, so I may have misunderstood Milton here.=C2=A0 =
Not to mention what the phrase means to
</span></font><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif"">you.=C2=A0 I'm sure you h=
ave questions so don't hesitate to ask.=C2=A0 We can tweek the translat=
ion until you're completely happy with it.=C2=A0
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=C2=A0</span></font>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Qapla'!</span></=
font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1f497d">--<br>
Voragh=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 <br>
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><font face=3D"Taho=
ma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sa=
ns-serif";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font face=3D"Tahom=
a"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif"">
Kate Oscarson [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">ktroseoscarson@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 27,=
2010 1:53 PM</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">I am writing to you today in hopes of assistance in =
a Klingon translation project.=C2=A0 I retrieved your email address
off of the Klingon Language Institute Discussion Board, and am hopeful tha=
t you might be able to help me, or at least point me in the right direction=
.=C2=A0 I have already had emails bounce back as "undeliverable" =
for all administrator addresses at the KLI website.=C2=A0
I am hoping to translate "Without Thorn the Rose" (Milton, Parad=
ise Lost).=C2=A0 I have done the research and checked many resources, howev=
er I am unable to find the words "rose" and "thorn" def=
ined either at=C2=A0the KLI=C2=A0or at other Klingon translation websites.=
=C2=A0 Would
you be able to assist?<br>
=C2=A0<br>
To add a personal note, in the hopes that it may help my cause, I am in the=
process of having a large rose-vine tattooed across my back as a way of pa=
ying respect to my family's honor (I am the 13th rose in a family of st=
rong, proud, honorable women.)=C2=A0 I would
like to add this phrase to my tattoo.=C2=A0 I think that the Klingon Gods =
would have approved, had they not all been slain by their creations.<br>
=C2=A0<br>
Thank you for your time,<br>
=C2=A0<br>
Katherine Rose Oscarson <span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><u><=
/u><u></u></font></span></span></font></p><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font colo=
r=3D"#888888">
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face=
=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <br>
~Kate Oscarson<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ktroseoscarso=
n@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.wilocavore.blogspot.com" target=3D"_blank">www.wiloca=
vore.blogspot.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</font></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi=
.digitalkingdom.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-=
hol</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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