[94208] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] A request for assistance
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Mon Jul 30 14:51:48 2012
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:51:23 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CA+pfop2iOxrRg35fR+he=RNXEsdYSCwFbM6WZYRdSHXonGTPdw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Some of you may remember this request from a couple of years ago. Would so=
meone please contact Kate OFF LIST and help her choose a suitable {pIqaD} f=
ont for her tattoo. Her e-mail address is ktroseoscarson@gmail.com<mailto:=
ktroseoscarson@gmail.com>.
Thanks,
--
Voragh
Kate,
I'm afraid I don't really know much about the available fonts for "pIqaD" (=
as the "native" Klingon writing system is called), but I'll be happy to for=
ward your post to the Klingon Language Institute's mailing list and ask for=
someone to contact you. Let me know if you haven't heard anything in a fe=
w days.
From: Kate Oscarson [mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:28 PM
Hello Mr. Boozer,
I certainly took your advice, and did not rush into anything. It is now tw=
o years later, and I am ready to move forward with this project. After ref=
lecting, I think I would like to use the word "roS," regardless of the othe=
r context for this word. The flower itself is important, since it is liter=
ally my name and a family name. I think that the family connection is impo=
rtant, even if my family name does mean "lick" or "toe."
May I make another request of you, in that case? I would like to make sure=
I translate this correctly into the appropriate characters. Would you be =
able to assist me in this request?
Thank you,
Kate
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu<mailto=
:sboozer@uchicago.edu>> wrote:
I'd be happy to assist, but as I tell everyone who wants a Klingon tattoo: =
Don't rush it before you're completely happy with it. Once you've been in=
ked it's too late to change a bad translation! (Don't laugh; it's happened=
.)
As for vocabulary, there're a couple of options for "thorn". You could say=
{DuQwI'Hom} "(small) spike, spikelet":
A "spike" is a {DuQwI'} and the small spikes on the d'k tahg [pommel]
are usually called {DuQwI'Hommey} ("little spikes"). [KGT p.61]
or *{por jej} "sharp leaf". In fact Okrand described the {naHjej} as:
a thistle (a flower with dangerously sharp leaves) is a {naHjej}
(literally, "sharp fruit")" [KGT p.88]
Because "rose" is an Earth flower, you wouldn't expect there to be a Klingo=
n word for it. As we often say on the KLI mailing list in such cases: "Wh=
at's Klingon for 'pizza'?" (As it happens, there's also no known word for =
"flower" - someone once came up with *{tI 'IH}, literally "beautiful veget=
ation".) Generally we simply transcribe such words using Okrand's Klingon =
orthography - e.g. *{roS} - but I wouldn't do that in this case since {roS}=
is phonetically identical to 1) the verb "lick"; 2) the verb "use the thir=
d toe"; and the {roS} found in {roSHa'moH} "paralyze (meaning unclear).
On the other hand we do know the names of a few specific Klingon flowers if=
you'd like to choose one:
{chal} - a type of flower (SAREK [pro-novel]):
"When you are my wife, your beauty will blossom like *chal* flowers in sp=
ring."
(Karg in the pro-novel SAREK by Michael Jan Friedman, p.58)
*{tlhoghnI'} - throgni
Night-blooming Throgni is a fragrant Klingon flower. "Worf found the smell =
of a Quazulu VIII virus similar to the Throgni." ("Star Trek Encyclopedia",=
p.219; cf. TNG "Angel One"]) Worf didn't say that Throgni had romantic ov=
ertones (like the Earth rose), but I thought he had a wistful expression on=
his face during the scene. Note that it seems to contain the morphemes {t=
lhogh} "marriage" and {nI'} "be long/lengthy in duration".
{tlheng'IQ} - thranx
It's a Klingon plant that flowers once every eight years (described in the =
pro-novel KAHLESS also by Michael Jan Friedman, p.60). This is a brand-new=
official spelling Okrand coined for the opera {'u'}, which debuted in the =
Netherlands just last month.
As for the phrase, we have a few options. Using {naHjej} for example we co=
uld translate it as a sentence:
DuQwI'Hom ghajbe' naHjej
a thistle doesn't have a thorn (or, thorns)
DuQwI'Hom Hutlh naHjej
a thistle lacks a thorn (or, thorns)
or as a phrase:
DuQwI'Hom ghajbe'bogh naHjej'e'
thistle that does not have a thorn (or, thorns)
thistle not having a thorn (or, thorns)
DuQwI'Hom Hutlhbogh naHjej'e'
thistle that lacks a thorn (or, thorns)
thistle lacking a thorn (or, thorns)
I said "a thorn (or, thorns)" because the plural suffix {-mey} is never req=
uired in Klingon as you probably know.
Well that's enough to start with. I'm not entirely sure what "without thor=
n the rose" is supposed to imply, so I may have misunderstood Milton here. =
Not to mention what the phrase means to you. I'm sure you have questions =
so don't hesitate to ask. We can tweek the translation until you're comple=
tely happy with it.
Qapla'!
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
From: Kate Oscarson [mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com<mailto:ktroseoscarson@=
gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 1:53 PM
I am writing to you today in hopes of assistance in a Klingon translation p=
roject. I retrieved your email address off of the Klingon Language Institu=
te Discussion Board, and am hopeful that you might be able to help me, or a=
t least point me in the right direction. I have already had emails bounce =
back as "undeliverable" for all administrator addresses at the KLI website.=
I am hoping to translate "Without Thorn the Rose" (Milton, Paradise Lost)=
. I have done the research and checked many resources, however I am unable=
to find the words "rose" and "thorn" defined either at the KLI or at other=
Klingon translation websites. Would you be able to assist?
To add a personal note, in the hopes that it may help my cause, I am in the=
process of having a large rose-vine tattooed across my back as a way of pa=
ying respect to my family's honor (I am the 13th rose in a family of strong=
, proud, honorable women.) I would like to add this phrase to my tattoo. =
I think that the Klingon Gods would have approved, had they not all been sl=
ain by their creations.
Thank you for your time,
Katherine Rose Oscarson
--
~Kate Oscarson
ktroseoscarson@gmail.com<mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com>
www.wilocavore.blogspot.com<http://www.wilocavore.blogspot.com>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D">Some of you may remember this request from a couple of years ag=
o. Would someone please contact Kate OFF LIST and help
her choose a suitable {pIqaD} font for her tattoo. Her e-mail addres=
s is <a href=3D"mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com">
ktroseoscarson@gmail.com</a>. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D">--<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas"=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D">Voragh=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style=3D"mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:double =
windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"border:none;padding:0in"><font size=3D"4" c=
olor=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></fon=
t></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D">Kate,
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D">I’m afraid I don't really know much about the available f=
onts for “pIqaD” (as the “native” Klingon writing s=
ystem is
called), but I’ll be happy to forward your post to the Klingon Langu=
age Institute’s mailing list and ask for someone to contact you. =
; Let me know if you haven’t heard anything in a few days.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier N=
ew"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><font size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma&quo=
t;,"sans-serif";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Kate Oscarson [mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 27, 2012 =
11:28 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face=
=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hello Mr. Boozer,<br>
<br>
I certainly took your advice, and did not rush into anything. It is n=
ow two years later, and I am ready to move forward with this project. =
After reflecting, I think I would like to use the word "roS," re=
gardless of the other context for this word. The flower
itself is important, since it is literally my name and a family name. =
; I think that the family connection is important, even if my family name d=
oes mean "lick" or "toe."
<br>
<br>
May I make another request of you, in that case? I would like to make=
sure I translate this correctly into the appropriate characters. Wou=
ld you be able to assist me in this request?<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
<br>
Kate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Steven Boozer <<=
a href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" target=3D"_blank">sboozer@uchicago.e=
du</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D">I'd be happy to assist, but as I tell everyone who wants
a Klingon tattoo: Don't rush it before you're completely happy with =
it. Once you've been inked it's too late to change a bad translation!=
(Don't laugh; it's happened.)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D">As for vocabulary, there're a couple of options for "thorn&qu=
ot;.
You could say {</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">=
DuQwI'Hom} "(small) spike, spikelet":</span></font><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> A "<i><span=
style=3D"font-style:italic">spike"</span></i> is a {DuQwI'} and the s=
mall
spikes on the <i><span style=3D"font-style:italic">d'k tahg</span></i> [po=
mmel]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> are usually=
called {DuQwI'Hommey} ("little spikes"). [KGT p.61]</span>=
</font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">=
or *{por jej} "sharp leaf". In fact Okrand described the {<=
/span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">naHjej}
as:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> a thistle (a flower =
with dangerously sharp leaves) is a {naHjej}</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> (literally, "<i=
><span style=3D"font-style:italic">sharp fruit"</span></i>)" &nbs=
p;[KGT p.88]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif";font-weight:bold"> </span=
></font></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D">Because "rose" is an Earth flower, you wouldn't expect
there to be a Klingon word for it. As we often say on the KLI mailin=
g list in such cases: "What's Klingon for 'pizza'?" (=
As it happens, there's also no known word for "flower" – so=
meone once came up with *{tI 'IH}, literally "beautiful vegetati=
on".) Generally
we simply transcribe such words using Okrand's Klingon orthography - e.g. =
*{roS} – but I wouldn't do that in this case since {roS} is phonetica=
lly identical to 1) the verb "lick"; 2) the verb "use the th=
ird toe"; and the {roS} found in {roSHa'moH} "paralyze
(meaning unclear).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D">On the other hand we do know the names of a few specific
Klingon flowers if you'd like to choose one:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">{chal}<i><span style=3D=
"font-style:italic">
</span></i> - a type of flower (SAREK [pro-novel]):</span></font><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> "When you a=
re my wife, your beauty will blossom like *chal* flowers in spring."
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> (Karg in t=
he pro-novel SAREK by Michael Jan Friedman, p.58)</span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">*{<i><span style=3D"fon=
t-style:italic">tlhoghnI'}
</span></i> - <i><span style=3D"font-style:italic">throgni</span></i><=
/span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-style:italic">&n=
bsp;</span></font></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Night-blooming
<i><span style=3D"font-style:italic">Throgni</span></i> is a fragrant Kling=
on flower. "Worf found the smell of a Quazulu VIII virus similar to th=
e Throgni." ("Star Trek Encyclopedia", p.219; cf. TNG "=
Angel One"]) Worf didn't say that Throgni had romantic overtones
(like the Earth rose), but I thought he had a wistful expression on his fa=
ce during the scene. Note that it seems to contain the morphemes {tlh=
ogh} "marriage" and {nI'} "be long/lengthy in duration"=
.
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">{tlheng'IQ} -&nbs=
p;
<i><span style=3D"font-style:italic">thranx</span></i></span></font><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">It's a Klingon plant th=
at flowers once every eight years (described in the pro-novel
KAHLESS also by Michael Jan Friedman, p.60). This is a brand-new off=
icial spelling Okrand coined for the opera {'u'}, which debuted in the Neth=
erlands just last month.
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;line-height:12.0pt">
<i><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial","sans-serif";font-style:italic"> </spa=
n></font></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"">As for the phrase, we have a few=
options. Using {naHjej} for example we could translate it as a sente=
nce:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> DuQwI'Hom ghajbe' n=
aHjej</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> a thistle doesn't h=
ave a thorn (or, thorns)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> DuQwI'Hom Hutlh naH=
jej</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> a thistle lacks a t=
horn (or, thorns)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"">or as a phrase:</span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> DuQwI'Hom ghajbe'bo=
gh naHjej'e'</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> thistle that does n=
ot have a thorn (or, thorns)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> thistle not having =
a thorn (or, thorns)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> DuQwI'Hom Hutlhbogh=
naHjej'e'</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> thistle that lacks =
a thorn (or, thorns)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> thistle lacking a t=
horn (or, thorns)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"">I said "a thorn (or, thorns=
)" because the plural suffix {-mey} is never required in Klingon as yo=
u probably know.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.2in;line-height:12.0pt">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif"">
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Well that's enough to s=
tart with.
</span></font><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Arial"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D">I'm not entirely sure what
</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">"without thor=
n the rose" is supposed to imply, so I may have misunderstood Milton h=
ere. Not to mention what the phrase means to
</span></font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">you. I'm sur=
e you have questions so don't hesitate to ask. We can tweek the trans=
lation until you're completely happy with it.
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Qapla'!</span></font><o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1F497D"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1F497D">--<br>
Voragh &nb=
sp; =
<br>
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1F497D"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1F497D"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0p=
t"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold">From:</=
span></font></b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Kate Oscarson [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">ktroseoscarson@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 27,=
2010 1:53 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size=
:12.0pt">I am writing to you today in hopes of assistance in a Klingon tran=
slation project. I retrieved your email address
off of the Klingon Language Institute Discussion Board, and am hopeful tha=
t you might be able to help me, or at least point me in the right direction=
. I have already had emails bounce back as "undeliverable" =
for all administrator addresses at the KLI website.
I am hoping to translate "Without Thorn the Rose" (Milton, Parad=
ise Lost). I have done the research and checked many resources, howev=
er I am unable to find the words "rose" and "thorn" def=
ined either at the KLI or at other Klingon translation websites.&=
nbsp; Would
you be able to assist?<br>
<br>
To add a personal note, in the hopes that it may help my cause, I am in the=
process of having a large rose-vine tattooed across my back as a way of pa=
ying respect to my family's honor (I am the 13th rose in a family of strong=
, proud, honorable women.) I would
like to add this phrase to my tattoo. I think that the Klingon Gods =
would have approved, had they not all been slain by their creations.<br>
<br>
Thank you for your time,<br>
<br>
Katherine Rose Oscarson <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"3" face=
=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <br>
~Kate Oscarson<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ktroseoscarson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ktroseoscarso=
n@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.wilocavore.blogspot.com" target=3D"_blank">www.wiloca=
vore.blogspot.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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