[93560] in tlhIngan-Hol
[Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: Time and Type 7 verb suffixes
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Thu Jun 7 11:23:37 2012
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 08:23:12 -0700
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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I found it interesting that Marc in TKD says that aspectless verbs might be t=
ranslated with simple present or as future, but doesn't say that they might b=
e translated as past. I did find one that he did translate with past, Hoch n=
uH Daqel'a' - did you consider every weapon?
I also can't find any canonical sentences of the form "[Timestamp in the pas=
t] [verb][no aspect suffix]." Evidence against includes, QI'tomerDaq Heghpu'=
Hoch (in the English translation at least, QI'tomer is being used as a past=
event not a place).
narghbe'chugh SuvwI' qa' taH may' is translated "if the warrior's spirit has=
not escaped -- present perfect tense -- even though it's aspectless in Klin=
gon. Not sure what the grammatical difference is between that and nuHlIj Daw=
Ivpu', vaj yISuv.=20
I started to go through the Skybox cards in search of a sentence like that, (=
they're on qurgh's site) but I kept getting distracted by the random pIqaD a=
nd by things like Hub'eghrupHa'.=20
Does Marc ever use an aspectless verb with a clearly past timestamp?
- Qov
Begin forwarded message:
> From: David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
> Date: 7 June, 2012 6:09:33 PDT
> To: tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Time and Type 7 verb suffixes
>=20
> I've found a couple of phrases in KGT that unquestionably use -pu' as perf=
ect tense instead of perfective aspect. One of them is {nIn Hoch natlhlu'pu'=
} "all the fuel has been consumed." Another is {Dujmey law' chIjpu'} "has na=
vigated many ships."
>=20
> I was just skimming, not doing an exhausted check.
>=20
> --=20
> SuStel
> http://www.trimboli.name/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>I found it interesting tha=
t Marc in TKD says that aspectless verbs might be translated with simple pre=
sent or as future, but doesn't say that they might be translated as past. I d=
id find one that he did translate with past, Hoch nuH Daqel'a' - did you con=
sider every weapon?</div><div><br></div><div>I also can't find any canonical=
sentences of the form "[Timestamp in the past] [verb][no aspect suffix]." E=
vidence against includes, <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-we=
bkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fi=
ll-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rg=
ba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">QI'tomerDaq Heghpu' Hoch (in the English trans=
lation at least, QI'tomer is being used as a past event not a place).</span>=
</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-tap-highlight-c=
olor: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 1=
92, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.23=
0469); "><br></span></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-we=
bkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fi=
ll-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rg=
ba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">narghbe'chugh SuvwI' qa' taH may' is translate=
d "if the warrior's spirit has not escaped -- present perfect tense -- even t=
hough it's aspectless in Klingon. Not sure what the grammatical difference i=
s between that and nuHlIj DawIvpu', vaj yISuv. </span></div><div><span c=
lass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26,=
26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469=
); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><br></sp=
an></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-tap-highligh=
t-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(17=
5, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0=
.230469); ">I started to go through the Skybox cards in search of a sentence=
like that, (they're on qurgh's site) but I kept getting distracted by the r=
andom pIqaD and by things like Hub'eghrupHa'. </span></div><div><span c=
lass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26,=
26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469=
); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);"><br></spa=
n></div><div>Does Marc ever use an aspectless verb with a clearly past times=
tamp?</div><div><br></div><div>- Qov<br><br></div><div><br>Begin forwarded m=
essage:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><b>From:</b> David Trimb=
oli <<a href=3D"mailto:david@trimboli.name">david@trimboli.name</a>><b=
r><b>Date:</b> 7 June, 2012 6:09:33 PDT<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:tlhi=
ngan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a>=
<br><b>Subject:</b> <b>Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Time and Type 7 verb suffixes</b><=
br><br></div></blockquote><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>I'=
ve found a couple of phrases in KGT that unquestionably use -pu' as perfect t=
ense instead of perfective aspect. One of them is {nIn Hoch natlhlu'pu'} "al=
l the fuel has been consumed." Another is {Dujmey law' chIjpu'} "has navigat=
ed many ships."</span><br><span></span><br><span>I was just skimming, not do=
ing an exhausted check.</span><br><span></span><br><span>-- </span><br><span=
>SuStel</span><br><span><a href=3D"http://www.trimboli.name/">http://www.tri=
mboli.name/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>___________________________=
____________________</span><br><span>Tlhingan-hol mailing list</span><br><sp=
an><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@sto=
di.digitalkingdom.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"http://stodi.digitalkin=
gdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol">http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mail=
man/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=
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