[93372] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Borg naming convention, assimulation
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Fri May 25 13:37:01 2012
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:36:39 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmMWAFxZ4sGfdXF3E=3bAnGf12N5gKOQpQdVhK2AmX8Ncw@mail.gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Seven of Nine is a proper name. Do you translate the meaning of YOUR =
name into their native tongue when you introduce yourself to foreigners?
Maybe Klingons would call her "Seven of Nine". If they don't speak =
English well enough to pronounce that well, it might come out *Se'vIn =
'av nayIn*.
If I were translating the meaning of it, the challenge becomes how to =
translate a sentence fragment. TKD tells us a lot about translating =
sentences and translating clauses so that they function properly within =
the context of a complete sentence, but what does "Seven of Nine" really =
mean? I'd be drawn to {Hut'e' Soch} (On the topic of nine, seven), =
because that carries the meaning well, though it's weird grammar for a =
sentence fragment. The {-'e'} would indicate the topic of the action of =
a main verb, like {Hut'e' Soch vIponglu'}. "On the topic of nine, I am =
called seven." And so, a sort of clipping might explain the loss of the =
entire main verb. It's ugly, but to my ear it beats the literal "Nine's =
seven" you were suggesting.
As for "You will be assimilated," this is quite alien to the Klingon =
psyche. Klingons conquer, they do not assimilate. These two actions =
could only be confused by someone not familiar enough with either of =
them.
The Borg has no respect for its enemies. They are less like a collection =
of predators than they are like victims of a disease that they cannot =
help themselves from spreading. The plague that consumes them becomes =
the plague that drives them to consume others.
So, it is unlikely that Klingons learn the names of Borg. The Borg is =
less of an enemy than an infestation that threatens to weaken those who =
engage them. There's nothing gained by winning a fight with Borg. It =
only attracts more of them. The Borg don't kill you. They enslave you, =
destroying your identity, and so, your honor.
Upon encountering an assimilated Klingon, an unassimilated Klingon would =
show no more respect or concern for the assimilated than he would for a =
corpse, for the same reason.
A Klingon without individual responsibility for his actions is dead and =
gone.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
On May 25, 2012, at 12:33 PM, De'vID jonpIn wrote:
> I'm pretty sure this would've come up on the list before, but how does
> one go about expression the typical Borg designation in Klingon? For
> example, Seven of Nine? {Hut Soch} is ambiguous (does it mean
> "9-7"?).
>=20
> Also, I'm sure someone must have translated "You will be assimilated"
> before. {jumuv net raD}? But "You will be assimilated" is more like
> an impersonal statement of fact; it is not explicitly stated that _we_
> will be assimilating you.
>=20
> --=20
> De'vID
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div>Seven of Nine is a proper name. Do you translate the meaning of =
YOUR name into their native tongue when you introduce yourself to =
foreigners?</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe Klingons would call her =
"Seven of Nine". If they don't speak English well enough to pronounce =
that well, it might come out *Se'vIn 'av =
nayIn*.</div><div><br></div><div>If I were translating the meaning of =
it, the challenge becomes how to translate a sentence fragment. TKD =
tells us a lot about translating sentences and translating clauses so =
that they function properly within the context of a complete sentence, =
but what does "Seven of Nine" really mean? I'd be drawn to {Hut'e' Soch} =
(On the topic of nine, seven), because that carries the meaning well, =
though it's weird grammar for a sentence fragment. The {-'e'} would =
indicate the topic of the action of a main verb, like {Hut'e' Soch =
vIponglu'}. "On the topic of nine, I am called seven." And so, a sort of =
clipping might explain the loss of the entire main verb. It's ugly, but =
to my ear it beats the literal "Nine's seven" you were =
suggesting.</div><div><br></div><div>As for "You will be assimilated," =
this is quite alien to the Klingon psyche. Klingons conquer, they do not =
assimilate. These two actions could only be confused by someone not =
familiar enough with either of them.</div><div><br></div><div>The Borg =
has no respect for its enemies. They are less like a collection of =
predators than they are like victims of a disease that they cannot help =
themselves from spreading. The plague that consumes them becomes the =
plague that drives them to consume others.</div><div><br></div><div>So, =
it is unlikely that Klingons learn the names of Borg. The Borg is less =
of an enemy than an infestation that threatens to weaken those who =
engage them. There's nothing gained by winning a fight with Borg. It =
only attracts more of them. The Borg don't kill you. They enslave you, =
destroying your identity, and so, your =
honor.</div><div><br></div><div>Upon encountering an assimilated =
Klingon, an unassimilated Klingon would show no more respect or concern =
for the assimilated than he would for a corpse, for the same =
reason.</div><div><br></div><div>A Klingon without individual =
responsibility for his actions is dead and gone.</div><br><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; =
"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On May 25, 2012, at 12:33 PM, De'vID jonpIn =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>I'm pretty sure this would've come up on the list =
before, but how does<br>one go about expression the typical Borg =
designation in Klingon? For<br>example, Seven of Nine? {Hut =
Soch} is ambiguous (does it mean<br>"9-7"?).<br><br>Also, I'm sure =
someone must have translated "You will be assimilated"<br>before. =
{jumuv net raD}? But "You will be assimilated" is more =
like<br>an impersonal statement of fact; it is not explicitly stated =
that _we_<br>will be assimilating you.<br><br>-- =
<br>De'vID<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhin=
gan-hol mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi.d=
igitalkingdom.org</a><br>http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/=
tlhingan-hol<br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=
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