[932] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: A love-poem and a paternoster
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
Thu May 27 02:27:14 1993
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Reply-To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us>
From: nsn@mullian.ee.Mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas)
To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us>
Date: Thu, 27 May 1993 13:55:43 +1000 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9305241438.AA03711@startide.ctr.columbia.edu> from "shoulson@ctr.
}A Paternoster! Now Klingon can truly take its ranks among the constructed
}languages of the world. Why is it that it's always the standard example?
}Go figure.
I do believe we've had this debate already on conlang :) For the benefit of
those unfamiliar with the term, a Paternoster is the Lord's Prayer.
}but is it "My Father" or "Our Father"? If the latter (as in English), it
}should be "vavma'".
vavma' it is.
}I assume you meant to type "lalDanquvjaj".
Also correct.
}neHDochlIj="thy will"? Thy want-thing... Hrm. Would "qaSjaj Doch
}DaneHbogh" be too wordy?
Not really, though it would kill the parallellism.
}>QI'tu'Daq Dochvam qaSghach rapjaj juHqo'Daq Dochvam qaSghach.
}Ooog, Klingon does tend to get a little prolix. Perhaps dropping "Dochvam"
}and making it "qaSghachDaj" (its occurence)?
Yeah, or something like QI'tu' qaSghach rurjaj juHqo' qaSghach? Actually,
that juxtaposition works much better than an explicit locative.
}Can you use noun-noun possessives and possessive
}suffixes? Likely, but it may be a little weird.
Well, I dunno. I guess I didn't take Okrand at his word, and though that
the possession in noun-noun pairs wasn't necessarily the same as that in
possessive suffixes.
}Supersubstantial bread?
}(now I see where you got ghoDDung!) er, "Hap nIvbogh Sojmaj"? (maybe
}technical word for "matter"). Should it be "Sojmaj" (our food) and not
}"SojwIj" (my food)?
Again, yes, Sojmaj. I don't know why I was oblivious to "us". You mean
ghoD is the verb? God, why don't I wear glasses next time I peruse TKD...
I'd check Hap nIvbogh, but I've lent my TKD to a Trekkie, otherwise I'll
never get any work done...
}>nuQu'maghwI'pu' DIHupbe'.
I'm nominalising the verb Qu'magh; there's nothing to say I can't nominalise
a verb with pronoun affixes.
}>vaj pIQu'maghmo' ghoHupQo'.
}Ooooooh, I see. You reversed the order so you could use "vaj". OK, cool.
}But you still have verb-prefixes on nouns. Ah, I see, you're nominalizing
}the verbs, eliding the "-ghach" because of the noun-suffixes, but you're
}nominalizing them complete with verb prefixes: so "nuQu'maghwI'pu'" is
}"[they who] duty-betray-us", and "pIQu'magh" is "our duty-betraying you."
Actually, the -mo' needn't be nominalising, as the Appendix indicates: it
can go after a verb.
Hm. This one probably has even more errors, but I might as well get it
out of the way. It's a translation of William Blake's _Jerusalem_ (a
chorister friend of mine defied me to do it, after I'd shown him the
Paternoster. He should have known better :) The original goes "And did those
feet in ancient time/ Walk upon England's mountains green/ And was the holy
lamb of God/ on England's pleasant pastures seen?/ And did the countenance
divine/ shine forth upon these clouded hills?/ And was Jerusalem builded
here/ among those dark satanic mills?/ Bring me my bow of burning gold!/
Bring me my arrows of desire!/ Bring me my spear! Oh clouds unfold!/ Bring
me my chariot of fire!/ I will not rest from mental fight/ nor shall my
sword sleep in my hand/ till we have built Jerusalem/ in England's green
and pleasant land.
And my translation:
tIQbovDaq Qo'noS HuDmey SuD
gho'bejpu'neS'a' qamDu'vetlh?
Qo'noS tI belmoH ghaHpu''a'
'u'che'taHwI' HemHa'wI' retlh?
'engHuDmajDaq wewbochpu''a'
quvbogh 'u'che'taHneSwI' qu'?
mIghwI' laSvarghmey HurghjojDaq
batlh chenchoHbejpu''a' QI'tu'?
jIHvaD, meQbogh baS pu'Hichwij,
neHghach betleHwIj je yInob!
DaH pengwIj qem! chenHa' Hoch 'eng!
qul tlha'DujwIj ghaHjaj QIH Qob!
SuDbogh 'ej 'IHbogh Qo'noSDaq
QI'tu' wIchenmoHta'be'vIS,
jIyabSuv 'e' jImevrupbe',
'ej 'etlhwIj vIlo'Ha'be'nIS!
Btw, since I don't like digraphs, I sort of remapped klingon sounds to the
alphabet, and I find the result more aesthetically pleasing to me. Your
mileage might vary, of course, but here's what the above would look like
remapped:
tiqbovdak qo'nos hudmey sud
qo'bejpu'nes'a' kamdu'vez?
qo'nos ti belmoh gahpu''a'
'u'ce'tahwi' hemha'wi' rez?
'exhudmajdak wewbocpu''a'
kuvbog 'u'ce'tahneswi' ku'?
migwi' lasvargmey hurgjojdak
baz cencohbejpu''a' qi'tu'?
jihvad, meqbogbas pu'hicwij,
nehgac betlehwij je yinob!
dah pexwij kem! cenha' hoc 'ex!
kul za'dujwij gahjaj qih qob!
sudbog 'ej 'ihbog qo'nosdak
qi'tu' wicenmohta'be'vis,
jiyabsuv 'e' jimevrupbe',
'ej 'ezwij vilo'ha'be'nis!
Btw, the .sig is Albanian :)
---
'Dera me xhama t"e larm"e, T Nick Nicholas, CgS & CS, Melbourne Uni
Dera mbas blerimit | nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo)
Me xhama t"e larm"e! | Milaw ki ellhnika/Esperanto parolata/
Lumtunia nuk ka ngjyra tjera.' | mi ka'e tavla bau la lojban. je'uru'e
- Martin Camaj, _Nj"e Shp'i e Vetme_ | *d'oh!*
