[92385] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Facebook Translation Project [FTP]: weekdays
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI'nuv)
Fri Mar 2 10:40:08 2012
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 10:39:44 -0500
In-Reply-To: <4F50D814.9060903@trimboli.name>
To: tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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SuStel, qatlho'neS. batlh bIjatlhchu'ta'. maQochbe'chu'.
majQa'.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
On Mar 2, 2012, at 9:24 AM, David Trimboli wrote:
> On 3/2/2012 6:24 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
>=20
>> I agree it may be a good mIw ru', but for long-term purposes, since
>> this is going to be a recurring concern, I still argue that the best
>> thing would be to try to develop a consensus on Klingon names for
>> these days, and once there is a consensus, to pass some sort of
>> semi-official list. I realize canon is very important to many of us
>> (including myself), but it just makes sense to me that the
>> Klingon-speaking community on Earth should decide how to refer to
>> strictly Terran things (and I suspect Mar... I mean, I suspect
>> *Maltz* would agree).
>=20
> This is an old chestnut.
>=20
> Who gave this list authority over the language? This list is not the =
entirety of Klingon-users. Do you think that, say, Krankor, who doesn't =
read this list, is going to give a fart what the few people who vote for =
Terran phrases on this list have announced is the way we'll all be =
referring to Terran things from now on? If the cabal of voters comes up =
with a phrase that I think is just plain wrong, am I required to accept =
it? No, sir, I do not accept the rulings of the privileged few.
>=20
> Klingon isn't ours. Heck, it's not really even Okrand's: there is no =
law which states that someone interested in Klingon must accept all =
Okrandian sources and no others. There are people who don't read this =
list, who aren't members of the KLI (whatever that means anymore), who =
accept a completely different set of assumptions about what the Klingon =
language is.
>=20
> As for your invocation of what Okrand would agree with, I don't think =
you're right. Okrand is less much invested in the idea of canon than we =
are. He's pleased he's created something that so many people enjoy, and =
he likes to expand it, but he has never, ever tried to assert any kind =
of claim of ownership over the language. This isn't just some legal =
position. He recognizes that many of us do consider him the sole source =
of facts about the language, and he sometimes seeks advice from some of =
us to maintain consistency with what he has done before (which we know =
much, much better than he does), but he would be just as pleased to talk =
to a group who have privately added their own words or grammar to the =
language. Are they enjoying themselves? If so, then great!
>=20
> So, no list rulings on how to say things. You can express your =
opinions, you can tell people they're idiots for their opinions, but you =
can't compel anyone to follow your rules. If you want such power, start =
a new group and see if you can get people to join. Stranger things have =
happened.
>=20
> --=20
> SuStel
> http://www.trimboli.name/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">SuStel, qatlho'neS. batlh bIjatlhchu'ta'. =
maQochbe'chu'.<div><br></div><div>majQa'.</div><div><br><div>
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color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
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"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br><div><div>On Mar 2, 2012, at 9:24 AM, David Trimboli wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On =
3/2/2012 6:24 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">I agree it may be a good mIw ru', but for long-term =
purposes, since<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">this is going =
to be a recurring concern, I still argue that the =
best<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">thing would be to try to =
develop a consensus on Klingon names for<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">these days, and once there is a consensus, to pass some =
sort of<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">semi-official list. I =
realize canon is very important to many of =
us<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">(including myself), but it =
just makes sense to me that the<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Klingon-speaking community on Earth should decide how to =
refer to<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">strictly Terran =
things (and I suspect Mar... I mean, I =
suspect<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">*Maltz* would =
agree).<br></blockquote><br>This is an old chestnut.<br><br>Who gave =
this list authority over the language? This list is not the entirety of =
Klingon-users. Do you think that, say, Krankor, who doesn't read this =
list, is going to give a fart what the few people who vote for Terran =
phrases on this list have announced is the way we'll all be referring to =
Terran things from now on? If the cabal of voters comes up with a phrase =
that I think is just plain wrong, am I required to accept it? No, sir, I =
do not accept the rulings of the privileged few.<br><br>Klingon isn't =
ours. Heck, it's not really even Okrand's: there is no law which states =
that someone interested in Klingon must accept all Okrandian sources and =
no others. There are people who don't read this list, who aren't members =
of the KLI (whatever that means anymore), who accept a completely =
different set of assumptions about what the Klingon language =
is.<br><br>As for your invocation of what Okrand would agree with, I =
don't think you're right. Okrand is less much invested in the idea of =
canon than we are. He's pleased he's created something that so many =
people enjoy, and he likes to expand it, but he has never, ever tried to =
assert any kind of claim of ownership over the language. This isn't just =
some legal position. He recognizes that many of us do consider him the =
sole source of facts about the language, and he sometimes seeks advice =
from some of us to maintain consistency with what he has done before =
(which we know much, much better than he does), but he would be just as =
pleased to talk to a group who have privately added their own words or =
grammar to the language. Are they enjoying themselves? If so, then =
great!<br><br>So, no list rulings on how to say things. You can express =
your opinions, you can tell people they're idiots for their opinions, =
but you can't compel anyone to follow your rules. If you want such =
power, start a new group and see if you can get people to join. Stranger =
things have happened.<br><br>-- <br>SuStel<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.trimboli.name/">http://www.trimboli.name/</a><br><br>__=
_____________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing =
list<br>Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org<br>http://stodi.digitalkingd=
om.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div=
></body></html>=
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