[91959] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: rIQ
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Mon Jan 30 18:51:46 2012
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: Brent Kesler <brent.of.all.people@gmail.com>, "tlhingan-hol@kli.org"
<tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 23:51:11 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CAFgJOr31UrjaOYSJLKVD_9V=MQsMX1rVQzOkW5znTHm-7zR6wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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I'm not that good at linguistics jargon, myself, but do I take it that the =
distinction you see is that -lI' should involve doing something actively, w=
herefore rIQ would [in most cases] not be used with -lI'?
________________________________
From: Brent Kesler [brent.of.all.people@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 00:05
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: rIQ
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se<mailto:fel=
ixm@kth.se>> wrote:
> To me, it sounds something has started to hurt you but hasn't finished ye=
t. Like if someone stabbed you, and you could feel the point of the blade c=
ut > into you, but at that moment you know your attacker is still pushing t=
he blade deeper. Or if someone were breaking your arm, and you could feel t=
he > bone fracture, but it hasn't yet snapped. That's what I'd think if I h=
eard you say <jIrIQlI'>.
I'd use <rIQchoHlI'> for that; in the process of becoming injured.
Yeah. I think I was putting too much thought into the English gloss rather =
than the Klingon word itself. Still, I think of <-lI'> as signifying the pr=
ogressive aspect, and <rIQ> seems stative to me, so my brain is rejecting <=
rIQlI'>.
However...
Looking at TKD, it seems that for -lI' to be used, all that's required is a=
known goal or definite endpoint,
That being said, in TKD MO also mentions -lI' as being a bit like a continu=
ous counterpart to -ta', suggesting that -lI' may imply doing something int=
entionally. The examples I could find also support this.
I don't know if this is just MO trying to avoid linguistics jargon when des=
cribing the progressive, or whether this is something other than the progre=
ssive. So far, I've been treating it like the progressive and getting away =
with it.
bI'reng
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">I'm not that good at linguistics jargon, myself, but do I take it th=
at the distinction you see is that -lI' should involve doing something acti=
vely, wherefore rIQ would [in most
cases] not be used with -lI'?<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
16px;">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;" id=3D"divRpF491391"><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Brent Kesler [brent.of.all.people@g=
mail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 31, 2012 00:05<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: rIQ<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Felix Malmenbec=
k <span dir=3D"ltr">
<<a href=3D"mailto:felixm@kth.se" target=3D"_blank">felixm@kth.se</a>>=
;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">> To me, it sounds something has started to hurt you b=
ut hasn't finished yet. Like if someone stabbed you, and you could feel the=
point of the blade cut > into you, but at that moment you know your att=
acker is still pushing the blade deeper.
Or if someone were breaking your arm, and you could feel the > bone fra=
cture, but it hasn't yet snapped. That's what I'd think if I heard you say =
<jIrIQlI'>.<br>
<br>
</div>
I'd use <rIQchoHlI'> for that; in the process of becoming injured.<br=
>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yeah. I think I was putting too much thought into the English gloss ra=
ther than the Klingon word itself. Still, I think of <-lI'> as signif=
ying the progressive aspect, and <rIQ> seems stative to me, so my bra=
in is rejecting <rIQlI'>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However...</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Looking at TKD, it seems that for -lI' to be used, all that's required is a=
known goal or definite endpoint, <br>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
That being said, in TKD MO also mentions -lI' as being a bit like a continu=
ous counterpart to -ta', suggesting that -lI' may imply doing something int=
entionally. The examples I could find also support this.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't know if this is just MO trying to avoid linguistics jargon whe=
n describing the progressive, or whether this is something other than the p=
rogressive. So far, I've been treating it like the progressive and getting =
away with it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>bI'reng</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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