[91849] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qIHpu'ghach wa'DIch - 'ay' wa'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Thu Jan 26 02:30:24 2012
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:30:07 +0100
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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QeS 'utlh:
> Following on from De'vID's lead, I've decided I may as well present my
First Contact subtitles here too. Hopefully it'll inspire someone else to
join in the captioning fun on another movie or even just an episode (and
believe me, it is fun), and at the same time, if anyone has any comments or
suggestions for corrections that'd be great as well.
maj. latlh DIpIlmoHjaj!
> BORG QUEEN: Locutus...
>
> PICARD: Borg Locutus jIH. QaplaHbe' qaDtaHghach.
(Already discussed in previous message.)
> ONSCREEN: jabbI'ID lI'lu'
>
> PICARD: chaw': pIqarD [1] loS Soch 'at tay. - 'aj.
I try not to look at the English original when reading a translation for as
much of it as I can, but I had to look up what {'at tay} corresponded to --
"alpha tango". My guess was that this was something like "4-7-A-T", and
I'd made the decision not to translate such "code" sequences in my
subtitles, though of course you may make a different choice.
Phonetic alphabets are used to disambiguate similar sounding letters, so
using the {-ay} form of the Klingon "letters" is not really appropriate
here. (Imagine talking to Klingons from different parts of the Empire and
going {may nay bay Day...}.) I'm sure the Klingons have their own form of
phonetic alphabet (e.g., this would be {loS Soch 'alngegh targh} or
something like that), but since we don't know what it is, maybe you should
just transliterate it? e.g., {loS Soch *'alva* *tangho*} or even {loS Soch
alpha tango} as you seem to be leaving some words in English.
> HAYES: SoHvaD qab'a' poH, janluq?
I had to think about what {poH qab} means. "Did I catch you at a bad
time?" is a colloquial expression, and I think you should rephrase this in
Klingon.
Maybe: {qarI'DI' qaqagh'a'?} "Did I interrupt you when I called you?"
> PICARD: ghobe'.
>
> HAYES: muSujbogh vay' Qumpu' logh Hop vagh. povam, Ivor wa' mIDmaj
Qaw'lu'. chuq'a' nochmey DIlo'pu'DI' =96
Maybe use {QIn} instead of {vay'}? Also, I'm not sure {Qum} can take an
object (though I've probably used it that way myself), perhaps {ngeH} is
better.
> PICARD: HISlaH, jISov. Borg.
>
> [Duj cha'lu']
>
> PICARD: HoD QonoS, HovpoH 50893.5. tagha' narghpu' wanI' vIHajbogh
qaStaHvIS jav DIS. Borg'e' - jaghma''e' chaH Qob law' Hoch Qob puS - DIvI'
luyot 'e' lutagh. 'ej DaH, chaq DImevlaHbe'.
loghaD has already commented on this so I'll skip it since my comments
would've been similar to his.
> RIKER: Duj 'ar?
>
> PICARD: wa', 'ej tera'Daq jaHchu'lI'. qaSpa' wa' rep, DIvI' veH
veghpu'qu'. Typhon mIchDaq yo' ghommoHlI' Hayes 'aj.
>
> DATA: 'aqroS pIvlob wIlo'chugh, wej rep cha'maH vagh tupmey DIpoQ -
>
> PICARD: wIjaHbe'.
>
> RIKER: nuqjatlh, <<wIjaHbe'>>?
A nice way to render "Whaddya mean?" maj.
> PICARD: neHmaH wIngIv net ra'. 'eb lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImevmeH. [2]
I'd add a {-vam} to {'eb} to make it more clear. When I read this I was
thinking "opportunity to do what?" and read until the end of the sentence
before I understood that it referred to the current situation.
About the sentence order, you can always recast so this isn't a problem:
{'ebvam lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImevmeH mavang}
{'ebvam lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImevmeH mangIv}
{'ebvam lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImev} (just drop the {-meH})
{'ebvam lujonchugh romuluSnganpu' DImev}
> TROI: romuluSnganpu'?
>
> DATA: HoD, romuluS wo' veHDaq qaSbe'pu' wanI' motlhbe' qaStaHvIS Hut jar.
yol lutaghmeH ghaytanHa' poHvam luwIv.
Instead of {qaSbe'} and {motlhbe'}, how about {qaS} and {ram}? I am
reminded of Kruge's line from Star Trek III: {naDev qaS wanI' ramqu'}
"There's nothing happening here", literally, "A very insignificant event is
happening here", or "trivial things are happening here".
{romuluS wo' veHDaq qaSpu' wanI' ramqu', qaStaHvIS Hut jar}
(I'd also put the {qaStaHvIS...} first, but keep it this way if you have to
sync to the spoken dialogue.)
> CRUSHER: maqeqnIStaH 'e' Har'a' 'ejyo'?
I had to look at the English for this one too. It's one of those things
where *after* you look at the English you think, "yeah, this works". What
does "shakedown time" actually mean? I think it's time to get a new crew
familiarised with a ship (remind me, did the Enterprise get destroyed
before this movie? Is this a new ship?), which is not quite merely
"training" or "practice". Maybe add a {Dujvam wISovchu'meH} to clarify?
> LAFORGE: HoD, loghDaq maHtaH qaStaHvIS wa' DIS HochHom. mavangrup. yo'
Dujmey'e' 'entepray' 'et 'Itlh law' Hoch 'Itlh puS. may'morgh tlhopDaq
maSuvnIS.
Problem: {'et} means "fore". {'entepray' 'et} is the front of the
Enterprise, maybe Ten Forward, or the saucer section, or something.
Is there canon for {'Itlh}? For some reason I have the idea that it refers
to civilisations and the like.
> PICARD: maja'chuqtaHvIS jIH 'ejyo' ra'ghomquv je 'e' wIqel. wIra'lu'taH.
yaS wa'DIch, neHmaH He yIcher.
I think {cher} isn't used in this sense. "set up, establish" sounds to me
like what you'd do with an organisation, school, or the like, not with a
course. I think {nab} is better.
This is great, I can't wait to see more.
--
De'vID
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<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> Following on from De'vID's lead, I've decided I may as wel=
l present my First Contact subtitles here too. Hopefully it'll inspire =
someone else to join in the captioning fun on another movie or even just an=
episode (and believe me, it is fun), and at the same time, if anyone has a=
ny comments or suggestions for corrections that'd be great as well.</p>
<p>maj.=A0 latlh DIpIlmoHjaj!</p>
<p>> BORG QUEEN: Locutus...<br>
><br>
> PICARD: Borg Locutus jIH. QaplaHbe' qaDtaHghach.</p>
<p>(Already discussed in previous message.)</p>
<p>> ONSCREEN: jabbI'ID lI'lu'<br>
><br>
> PICARD: chaw': pIqarD [1] loS Soch 'at tay. - 'aj.</p>
<p>I try not to look at the English original when reading a translation for=
as much of it as I can, but I had to look up what {'at tay} correspond=
ed to -- "alpha tango".=A0=A0 My guess was that this was somethin=
g like "4-7-A-T", and I'd made the decision not to translate =
such "code" sequences in my subtitles, though of course you may m=
ake a different choice. </p>
<p>Phonetic alphabets are used to disambiguate similar sounding letters, so=
using the {-ay} form of the Klingon "letters" is not really appr=
opriate here.=A0 (Imagine talking to Klingons from different parts of the E=
mpire and going {may nay bay Day...}.)=A0 I'm sure the Klingons have th=
eir own form of phonetic alphabet (e.g., this would be {loS Soch 'alnge=
gh targh} or something like that), but since we don't know what it is, =
maybe you should just transliterate it?=A0 e.g., {loS Soch *'alva* *tan=
gho*} or even {loS Soch alpha tango} as you seem to be leaving some words i=
n English.</p>
<p>> HAYES: SoHvaD qab'a' poH, janluq?</p>
<p>I had to think about what {poH qab} means.=A0 "Did I catch you at a=
bad time?" is a colloquial expression, and I think you should rephras=
e this in Klingon.=A0 </p>
<p>Maybe: {qarI'DI' qaqagh'a'?} "Did I interrupt you w=
hen I called you?"</p>
<p>> PICARD: ghobe'.<br>
><br>
> HAYES: muSujbogh vay' Qumpu' logh Hop vagh. povam, Ivor wa'=
; mIDmaj Qaw'lu'. chuq'a' nochmey DIlo'pu'DI' =
=96</p>
<p>Maybe use {QIn} instead of {vay'}?=A0 Also, I'm not sure {Qum} c=
an take an object (though I've probably used it that way myself), perha=
ps {ngeH} is better.</p>
<p>> PICARD: HISlaH, jISov. Borg.<br>
><br>
> [Duj cha'lu']<br>
><br>
> PICARD: HoD QonoS, HovpoH 50893.5. tagha' narghpu' wanI' v=
IHajbogh qaStaHvIS jav DIS. Borg'e' - jaghma''e' chaH Q=
ob law' Hoch Qob puS - DIvI' luyot 'e' lutagh. 'ej DaH,=
chaq DImevlaHbe'.</p>
<p>loghaD has already commented on this so I'll skip it since my commen=
ts would've been similar to his.</p>
<p>> RIKER: Duj 'ar?<br>
><br>
> PICARD: wa', 'ej tera'Daq jaHchu'lI'. qaSpa' w=
a' rep, DIvI' veH veghpu'qu'. Typhon mIchDaq yo' ghommo=
HlI' Hayes 'aj.<br>
><br>
> DATA: 'aqroS pIvlob wIlo'chugh, wej rep cha'maH vagh tupme=
y DIpoQ -<br>
><br>
> PICARD: wIjaHbe'.<br>
><br>
> RIKER: nuqjatlh, <<wIjaHbe'>>?</p>
<p>A nice way to render "Whaddya mean?"=A0 maj.</p>
<p>> PICARD: neHmaH wIngIv net ra'. 'eb lujon romuluSnganpu'=
'e' wImevmeH. [2]</p>
<p>I'd add a {-vam} to {'eb} to make it more clear.=A0 When I read =
this I was thinking "opportunity to do what?" and read until the =
end of the sentence before I understood that it referred to the current sit=
uation.</p>
<p>About the sentence order, you can always recast so this isn't a prob=
lem:</p>
<p>{'ebvam lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImevmeH mavang}<br>
{'ebvam lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImevmeH mangIv}<br>
{'ebvam lujon romuluSnganpu' 'e' wImev} (just drop the {-me=
H})<br>
{'ebvam lujonchugh romuluSnganpu' DImev}</p>
<p>> TROI: romuluSnganpu'?<br>
><br>
> DATA: HoD, romuluS wo' veHDaq qaSbe'pu' wanI' motlhbe&=
#39; qaStaHvIS Hut jar. yol lutaghmeH ghaytanHa' poHvam luwIv.</p>
<p>Instead of {qaSbe'} and {motlhbe'}, how about {qaS} and {ram}?=
=A0 I am reminded of Kruge's line from Star Trek III: {naDev qaS wanI&#=
39; ramqu'} "There's nothing happening here", literally, =
"A very insignificant event is happening here", or "trivial =
things are happening here".</p>
<p>{romuluS wo' veHDaq qaSpu' wanI' ramqu', qaStaHvIS Hut j=
ar}</p>
<p>(I'd also put the {qaStaHvIS...} first, but keep it this way if you =
have to sync to the spoken dialogue.)</p>
<p>> CRUSHER: maqeqnIStaH 'e' Har'a' 'ejyo'?</p>
<p>I had to look at the English for this one too.=A0 It's one of those =
things where *after* you look at the English you think, "yeah, this wo=
rks".=A0 What does "shakedown time" actually mean?=A0 I thin=
k it's time to get a new crew familiarised with a ship (remind me, did =
the Enterprise get destroyed before this movie?=A0 Is this a new ship?), wh=
ich is not quite merely "training" or "practice".=A0 Ma=
ybe add a {Dujvam wISovchu'meH} to clarify?</p>
<p>> LAFORGE: HoD, loghDaq maHtaH qaStaHvIS wa' DIS HochHom. mavangr=
up. yo' Dujmey'e' 'entepray' 'et 'Itlh law'=
Hoch 'Itlh puS. may'morgh tlhopDaq maSuvnIS.</p>
<p>Problem: {'et} means "fore".=A0 {'entepray' 'e=
t} is the front of the Enterprise, maybe Ten Forward, or the saucer section=
, or something.</p>
<p>Is there canon for {'Itlh}?=A0 For some reason I have the idea that =
it refers to civilisations and the like.=A0 </p>
<p>> PICARD: maja'chuqtaHvIS jIH 'ejyo' ra'ghomquv je &#=
39;e' wIqel. wIra'lu'taH. yaS wa'DIch, neHmaH He yIcher.</p=
>
<p>I think {cher} isn't used in this sense.=A0 "set up, establish&=
quot; sounds to me like what you'd do with an organisation, school, or =
the like, not with a course.=A0 I think {nab} is better.</p>
<p>This is great, I can't wait to see more. </p>
<p>--<br>
De'vID</p>
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