daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Sun Jan 22 09:11:49 2012
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmMv=rvw8ALd+ha0fYOX4-oXb=P1nvkkzPsquVjx-HD+wg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:11:31 +0100
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Quvar:
>>> mInDu'lIj vIvel jIH. bIH vIvelmeH ghopwIj vIlo'.
QeS 'utlh:
>> Given the example of {rav vel tlhIm}, I'd have thought {bIH velmeH} "in
order
>> that they [my hands] cover them" would be better.
Quvar:
> I see your point, but it is "I" who am covering it, using my hands;
adapting the right prefixes on the example:
> {rav velmeH tlhIm lo'}
> {rav vIvelmeH tlhIm vIlo'}
Wait a minute -- in the sentence {rav velmeH tlhIm lo'}, what's the subject
of {vel}? Is it (adding a comma and putting implied nouns in [brackets] to
make things more clear):
{tlhIm} -
{rav velmeH [tlhIm], tlhIm lo' [velwI']}
(alternatively, {rav velmeH tlhIm, [tlhIm] lo' [velwI']}); or
{velwI'} -
{rav velmeH [velwI'], tlhIm lo' [velwI']}?
I read MO's message as indicating that the {tlhIm} (or whatever is actually
being used to cover something) is always the subject of {vel}. This (I
thought) was why he specifically pointed out that one might have expected
the {velwI'} to refer to the carpet and not to the carpet layer.
Thus, I'd have expected "I carpet the floor" to be:
{rav velmeH tlhIm vIlo'}
Here's the relevant portion of the message from MO explaining {vel}:
> A carpet or a rug is tlhIm. When you lay a carpet, you don't use the
verb mutlh; the appropriate verb is vel ("cover, coat, mask"). One can say
rav vel tlhIm ("the carpet covers the floor"). To to say "lay a carpet,"
one says "use a carpet to cover the floor," or rav velmeH tlhIm lo'. The
person who lays the carpet is a velwI' (literally "coverer, coater,
masker"). You might think that the velwI' is the carpet itself. That
would make sense, but it doesn't work that way. Maltz commented that
Klingon rugs are primarily decorative. The idea of a fabric floor covering
being thick or soft was just bizarre to him.
--
De'vID
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<p><br>
Quvar:<br>
>>> mInDu'lIj vIvel jIH. bIH vIvelmeH ghopwIj vIlo'.</p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
>> Given the example of {rav vel tlhIm}, I'd have thought {bIH ve=
lmeH} "in order<br>
>> that they [my hands] cover them" would be better.</p>
<p>Quvar:<br>
> I see your point, but it is "I" who am covering it, using my=
hands; adapting the right prefixes on the example:<br>
> {rav =A0 velmeH tlhIm =A0 lo'}<br>
> {rav vIvelmeH tlhIm vIlo'}</p>
<p>Wait a minute -- in the sentence {rav velmeH tlhIm lo'}, what's =
the subject of {vel}?=A0 Is it (adding a comma and putting implied nouns in=
[brackets] to make things more clear):<br>
{tlhIm} - <br>
=A0=A0=A0 {rav velmeH [tlhIm], tlhIm lo' [velwI']} <br>
=A0=A0=A0 (alternatively, {rav velmeH tlhIm, [tlhIm] lo' [velwI']})=
; or<br>
{velwI'} -<br>
=A0=A0=A0 {rav velmeH [velwI'], tlhIm lo' [velwI']}?</p>
<p>I read MO's message as indicating that the {tlhIm} (or whatever is a=
ctually being used to cover something) is always the subject of {vel}.=A0 T=
his (I thought) was why he specifically pointed out that one might have exp=
ected the {velwI'} to refer to the carpet and not to the carpet layer.<=
/p>
<p>Thus, I'd have expected "I carpet the floor" to be:<br>
{rav velmeH tlhIm vIlo'}</p>
<p>Here's the relevant portion of the message from MO explaining {vel}:=
<br>
> A carpet or a rug is tlhIm. =A0When you lay a carpet, you don't us=
e the verb mutlh; the appropriate verb is vel ("cover, coat, mask"=
;). =A0One can say rav vel tlhIm ("the carpet covers the floor").=
To to say "lay a carpet," one says "use a carpet to cover t=
he floor," or rav velmeH tlhIm lo'. =A0The person who lays the car=
pet is a velwI' (literally "coverer, coater, masker"). =A0You=
might think that the velwI' is the carpet itself. =A0That would make s=
ense, but it doesn't work that way. =A0Maltz commented that Klingon rug=
s are primarily decorative. =A0The idea of a fabric floor covering being th=
ick or soft was just bizarre to him.</p>
<p>--<br>
De'vID</p>
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