[91709] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qo''e' tu'bogh pagh - 'ay' wej
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID jonpIn)
Sun Jan 15 13:02:01 2012
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:01:41 +0100
From: "De'vID jonpIn" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
To: "Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh" <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
Cc: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Quvar:
> That's funny, I did not follow this thread, nor did I read the subject
line - but when I read the lines, I recognised immediately which movie this
was :-)
maj. mubelmoH mu'meylIj.
De'vID:
> > KIRK: qatlh naDev maHtaH?
> > McCOY: chaq 'utlh patlh wISuqmo' lulop.
QeS 'utlh:
> Perhaps just {lop} "they celebrate" rather than {lulop} "they celebrate
it"?
Done.
De'vID:
> > SCOTT: maj. qen bIQ Duj vIje'pu'.
> > UHURA: potlhqu'nIS qepvam[1]. 'ampaSDaq ghojmeH qep vIche' 'e'
vIruchnIS.
QeS 'utlh:
> I actually think {potlhqu'nIS qepvam} captures the sense well here. No
issue
> with {-nIS} that I would raise, though my canon database is no help.
But is it {qepvam} that needs to be important. Someone pointed out to me
recently that {-nIS} expresses a need on the part of the subject. Here,
it's really Uhuru who requires that {qepvam} be important. So I'm still
not entirely sure about this. Well, I can always change this later if I
think of something better.
De'vID:
> > CHEKOV: patlh jen ghajwI'vaD neH 'oHbe''a' qepvam'e'?
> > KIRK: naDev maHchugh Hoch, nuqDaq ghaH *Sulu*'e'?
QeS 'utlh:
> {naDev maHchugh Hoch} grates because of the overt and hence third-person
noun
> despite the first-person pronoun; it feels mismatched. Also, you're
missing
> {-'e'} in the first clause. Maybe replace {Hoch} with {Hoch maH'e'}?
{naDev maHchugh Hoch maH'e'} - Done.
De'vID:
> > McCOY: *Sulu* HoD'e'. Qu' ta'taH.
QeS 'utlh:
> {chav} {rInmoH} ghap Daqelpu''a'?
Actually, I thought about {ghIgh bajtaH} "he's earning his necklace (slang
for assignment)". Then I thought maybe it was too slangy.
{Qu' chavtaH} it is.
De'vID:
> > KIRK: nuqDaq ghaH *Spock*'e'?
Quvar:
>> KIRK: nuqDaq ghaH *Spock*'e'?
>
> We do know that in "to be at a place" constructions, the pronoun usually
takes the suffix {-taH}. This was done correctly in the first sentence, but
missing in this question. Is this an eception here?
To quote from the movie: "An omission". This was an error on my part, it
should've been with {-taH} throughout. Thanks for catching this.
De'vID:
> > SPOCK: maj po. cha' wen tlhIngan maS pIraqSISDaq jorqu' vay' 'e' jIH
> > DIvI' Duj. tlhoy lutlhIlmo'law' 'ej yepHa'mo'law' jor.
QeS 'utlh:
> Watch your suffix ordering: {lutlhIllaw'mo'}, {yepHa'law'mo'}.
HIvqa' veqlargh. Fixed.
De'vID:
> > maS Qaw'lu'mo' lamqu'choH yuQ muDchaj 'ej HeghchoHmoH[2].
QeS 'utlh:
> I have no problem with {HeghchoHmoH}. What do you think about {SuQchoH}
> "begin to be toxic" for "pollute", instead of {lamqu'choH}?
Oh, good one. Yes, {SuQ} is much better.
De'vID:
> > qaSpu'DI' vaghmaH tera' DISHeymey[3] loj yInSIpchaj.
QeS 'utlh:
> I think {vaghmaHHey} is okay, though I'd be tempted just to say {vaghmaH
> tera' DISmey} and forget the approximation altogether.
Yes, I think I'm just going to drop all the "about", "approximately", etc.,
from all references to numbers.
De'vID:
> > 'Iqmo' Huch'e' poQbogh QI',
>
QeS 'utlh:
> I'd say {QI'chaj}, just to be clear whose military's being talked about.
Done.
De'vID:
> > yapbe' tlhIngan Huch jo 'ej lotvam luma'ruplaHbe'[4].
QeS 'utlh:
> Agreed, I'm not sure {ma'} is quite the right word... How about {jey}?
> I like what you've done with {-ruplaHbe'} here, by the way.
After considering the options, I think {qaD} is better here. They're not
even ready to confront the problem, let alone defeat it.
De'vID:
> > wen mutungHa'mo' vulqangan Duy'a',
>
QeS 'utlh:
> {wa'wen}, with or without a space.
D'oh. I had intended to change this from {wa' wen} to {qaStaHvIS nungbogh
jar}, because Spock was talking about an event that happened "last month"
rather than "one month ago" (subtle difference). Apparently I got
interrupted in the middle of making my change and forgot about it.
De'vID:
> > maja'chuq jIH ghorqan[5] je.
>
QeS 'utlh:
> I don't think we have it in canon, but for my part, since Gorkon is
> played by a speaker of English English I'm going to plead for {ghorqon}
> here, which is also the form used in the Klingon Hamlet.
Ah, well, if it's {ghorqon} in the original Shakespeare, then {ghorqon} it
is.
Thanks very much for your comments and suggestions!
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<p>Quvar:<br>
> That's funny, I did not follow this thread, nor did I read the sub=
ject line - but when I read the lines, I recognised immediately which movie=
this was :-)</p>
<p>maj.=A0 mubelmoH mu'meylIj.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > KIRK: qatlh naDev maHtaH?<br>
> > McCOY: chaq 'utlh patlh wISuqmo' lulop.</p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> Perhaps just {lop} "they celebrate" rather than {lulop} &quo=
t;they celebrate it"?</p>
<p>Done.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > SCOTT: maj. =A0qen bIQ Duj vIje'pu'.<br>
> > UHURA: potlhqu'nIS qepvam[1]. =A0'ampaSDaq ghojmeH qep vI=
che' 'e' vIruchnIS.</p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> I actually think {potlhqu'nIS qepvam} captures the sense well here=
. No issue<br>
> with {-nIS} that I would raise, though my canon database is no help.</=
p>
<p>But is it {qepvam} that needs to be important.=A0 Someone pointed out to=
me recently that {-nIS} expresses a need on the part of the subject.=A0 He=
re, it's really Uhuru who requires that {qepvam} be important.=A0 So I&=
#39;m still not entirely sure about this.=A0 Well, I can always change this=
later if I think of something better.</p>
<p>De'vID:=A0<br>
> > CHEKOV: patlh jen ghajwI'vaD neH 'oHbe''a' qe=
pvam'e'?<br>
> > KIRK: naDev maHchugh Hoch, nuqDaq ghaH *Sulu*'e'?</p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> {naDev maHchugh Hoch} grates because of the overt and hence third-pers=
on noun<br>
> despite the first-person pronoun; it feels mismatched. Also, you'r=
e missing<br>
> {-'e'} in the first clause. Maybe replace {Hoch} with {Hoch ma=
H'e'}?</p>
<p>{naDev maHchugh Hoch maH'e'} - Done.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > McCOY: *Sulu* HoD'e'. =A0Qu' ta'taH.</p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> {chav} {rInmoH} ghap Daqelpu''a'?</p>
<p>Actually, I thought about {ghIgh bajtaH} "he's earning his neck=
lace (slang for assignment)".=A0 Then I thought maybe it was too slang=
y.</p>
<p>{Qu' chavtaH} it is.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > KIRK: nuqDaq ghaH *Spock*'e'?</p>
<p>Quvar:<br>
>> KIRK: nuqDaq ghaH *Spock*'e'?<br>
><br>
> We do know that in "to be at a place" constructions, the pro=
noun usually takes the suffix {-taH}. This was done correctly in the first =
sentence, but missing in this question. Is this an eception here?</p>
<p>To quote from the movie: "An omission".=A0 This was an error o=
n my part, it should've been with {-taH} throughout.=A0 Thanks for catc=
hing this.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > SPOCK: maj po. =A0cha' wen tlhIngan maS pIraqSISDaq jorqu'=
; vay' 'e' jIH<br>
> > DIvI' Duj. =A0tlhoy lutlhIlmo'law' 'ej yepHa'=
mo'law' jor.</p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> Watch your suffix ordering: {lutlhIllaw'mo'}, {yepHa'law&#=
39;mo'}.</p>
<p>HIvqa' veqlargh.=A0 Fixed.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > maS Qaw'lu'mo' lamqu'choH yuQ muDchaj 'ej Heg=
hchoHmoH[2].</p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> I have no problem with {HeghchoHmoH}. What do you think about {SuQchoH=
}<br>
> "begin to be toxic" for "pollute", instead of {lam=
qu'choH}?</p>
<p>Oh, good one.=A0 Yes, {SuQ} is much better.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > qaSpu'DI' vaghmaH tera' DISHeymey[3] loj yInSIpchaj.<=
/p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> I think {vaghmaHHey} is okay, though I'd be tempted just to say {v=
aghmaH<br>
> tera' DISmey} and forget the approximation altogether.</p>
<p>Yes, I think I'm just going to drop all the "about", "=
;approximately", etc., from all references to numbers.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > 'Iqmo' Huch'e' poQbogh QI',<br>
><br>
QeS 'utlh:<br>
> I'd say {QI'chaj}, just to be clear whose military's being=
talked about.</p>
<p>Done.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > yapbe' tlhIngan Huch jo 'ej lotvam luma'ruplaHbe'=
[4].</p>
<p>QeS 'utlh:<br>
> Agreed, I'm not sure {ma'} is quite the right word... How abou=
t {jey}?<br>
> I like what you've done with {-ruplaHbe'} here, by the way.</p=
>
<p>After considering the options, I think {qaD} is better here.=A0 They'=
;re not even ready to confront the problem, let alone defeat it.</p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > wen mutungHa'mo' vulqangan Duy'a',<br>
><br>
QeS 'utlh:<br>
> {wa'wen}, with or without a space.</p>
<p>D'oh.=A0 I had intended to change this from {wa' wen} to {qaStaH=
vIS nungbogh jar}, because Spock was talking about an event that happened &=
quot;last month" rather than "one month ago" (subtle differe=
nce).=A0 Apparently I got interrupted in the middle of making my change and=
forgot about it.=A0 </p>
<p>De'vID:<br>
> > maja'chuq jIH ghorqan[5] je.<br>
><br>
QeS 'utlh:<br>
> I don't think we have it in canon, but for my part, since Gorkon i=
s<br>
> played by a speaker of English English I'm going to plead for {gho=
rqon}<br>
> here, which is also the form used in the Klingon Hamlet.</p>
<p>Ah, well, if it's {ghorqon} in the original Shakespeare, then {ghorq=
on} it is.</p>
<p>Thanks very much for your comments and suggestions!</p>
<p>--<br>
De'vID</p>
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