[89629] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: 'oghwI' lut
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Mon Sep 12 14:31:50 2011
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:24:30 -0500
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20110912101034.048f52c0@flyingstart.ca>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
jhb:
>>>> <<HuS, pa'wIjDaq jIjaH! HItlhej!>> ra' Qel.
Qov:
>>> In a complex set of rules that I myself get wrong, pa'Daq jIjaH means
>>> I am already inside the room and the motion takes place inside it.
>>> pa'wIj vIjaH is the meaning you want.
Andre:
>>Actually we have a canon phrase that states the opposite:
>>{pa'Daq yIjaH!} means "Go to the room!", TKD, p. 27
>>I guess, this sentence is ambiguous and can *also* mean "Go
>>inside the room!", but it's probably context-sensitive.
pa'vo' yIjaH
Leave the room! ("Go from the room!") TKD
jolpa' yIjaH. Qapla'!
To the transport room. Success! ST3
jolpa'Daq yIjaH
Go to the transport room! (CpK: jolpa' yIjaH) TKD
teplIj yIwoH 'ej pa'lIjDaq yIjaH
Pick up your baggage and go to your room. CK
>>Then again, we have another sentence:
>>{bIghHa' yIjaH!}, meaning "Go to jail!", from the Monopoly game.
Compare: {bIghHa'Daq yIghoS} "Go to jail!" from TKD.
>>So it seems {jaH} may or may not use the {-Daq} suffix, perhaps it's added
>>for clarification.
Qov:
> Yes, the HolQeD 7:4 interview makes it clear that that -Daq is
> unnecessary but not wrong.
For those interested, Will Martin interviewed Marc Okrand in HolQeD (Dec. 1998) on verbs of motion and {-Daq}:
MO: Here's the way {jaH} works. {jaH} can be used, using your
terminology both transitively and intransitively. So, {bIQtIqDaq
jIjaH} is "I go in the river. I'm moving along in the river, traveling
in the river." You can also say {bIQtIqDaq vIjaH}...
WM: You'd still use the {-Daq}?
MO: Yes. But you don't have to. That would be the way. {-Daq} or
no {-Daq}. The prefix makes the difference in meaning. {jI-}
means I'm moving along in someplace. {vI-} means I'm moving
along to someplace. You cannot say {bIQtIq} jIjaH.
and here are the other examples of {jaH} "go" in canon:
naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'
Can we get to the Great Hall from here? PK
may'Daq jaHDI' SuvwI' juppu'Daj lonbe'
When a warrior goes to a battle, he does not abandon his friends. TKW
'Iw bIQtIqDaq jIjaH
I travel the River of Blood. TKW
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
