[89549] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: mu'mey chu': jul
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Trimboli)
Fri Sep 9 15:55:37 2011
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 15:47:45 -0400
From: David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20110909112103.051fa348@flyingstart.ca>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
On 9/9/2011 2:50 PM, Robyn Stewart wrote:
> At 11:06 09/09/2011, lab SuStel:
>> On 9/9/2011 1:23 PM, Robyn Stewart wrote:
>>> At 09:36 09/09/2011, lab SuStel:
>>
>>> Then, seeing as the quotation marks are already doing the jatlh/ja'
>>> for me, I may add more sentences, not intending to act as verbs of
>>> saying, just to put more information in.
>>>
>>> "nuqDaq Daje'?" ghel baHwI'.
>>>
>>> mIy chIjwI'. "vIje'pu'be'. vISuqmeH HoD vIHoHta'."
>>
>> I see the transition, and I don't think it's problematical in itself,
>> but I do notice that your examples always include a description of the
>> manner of speech. I haven't been following the story, so I don't know if
>> you've got other kinds of actions in there (e.g., jaghDaq bach HoD.
>> "vIqIp'a'?").
>
> I'd be surprised if I don't have things like that. Are you saying it
> increases the gravity of my crimes against the language?
No, it decreases them. It shows that such instances are because of your
reasons, rather than a straightforward copying of English style.
But I'm not accusing you of anything. We simply don't have enough
evidence to come to any firm conclusions.
> baHwI'vaD jatlh HoD "tInwI' yIQeq." jonpa'vaD QumchoH, "baHbeH'a'
> nIH nISwI'?" leQDaq nItlhpach ghorpu'mo' HoD, QeHchoH.
>
> jang jonpIn. "wej" jatlh. qejlaw'.
Your punctuation in the second sentence betrays you. The comma suggests
that the speech is directly tied to the previous sentence, and that
{QumchoH} is a verb of saying.
This isn't a fault of your reasoned grammar, but rather of applying
English punctuation rules to a Klingon sentence that should work
differently. If I were just reading a story, I wouldn't care, but if I
were reading something meant to be punctuated to assist proper grammar,
I'd have to insist on a period or a semi-colon instead of a comma, or
else it's a run-on sentence.
> You know how a person could report in English, "So I told her, and
> she didn't believe me. She's like "no" and I say "yes" then it's "no"
> "yes" "no" "yes" "no," with the speaker possibly indicating turns
> with hands pointing each way. Do you think that wouldn't work in Klingon?
The description we've been given suggests that Klingon *doesn't* work
that way. Your English example is very colloquial, and wouldn't be
allowed in, say, an essay for grade-school English, which would require
more formal language.
But this particular colloquialism is specific to English. There's no
reason to expect that any given colloquialism must necessarily translate
directly into another language. Without any evidence to show it, I would
assume not.
> How about this hypothetical conversation between two people at qep'a':
>
> "Qanqor QongDaqDaq yIH Dalanpu'DI' nuq jatlh Qanqor?"
>
> "qamuS."
>
> That's perfectly understandable without the second person saying
> "jatlh qamuS."
Sure. But it's also a got a level of informal brevity. Perhaps it's
clipped Klingon. I dunno. We don't know what kind of "voices" Klingons
use in different contexts.
> Thanks. And if you're not reading the story it's because it's too
> long, you're not interested in fiction, or any specific reason I can address?
I got busy soon after you started, and they came too quickly for me to
catch up. I was rather hoping you'd put it all together when you
finished it and tweaked it to your satisfaction. I would find one long
story (broken into parts) easier to read than serialized parts.
--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
