[89496] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: nuq bop bom: 'ay' wa'maH loS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh)
Wed Sep 7 22:33:09 2011
From: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 12:26:09 +1000
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20110907054547.04c5f5a0@flyingstart.ca>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
jIjatlh:
> chaq Sar DanejnIS. porgh latlh 'ay'mey law' lutu'lu'!
mujang Qov:
> Do'Ha' DaHjaj latlh ghopDu' vIQIHlI'
DeS QIH DatIvqu'ba'!
jIH:
> qay'be'. DIr qIjchoHmoHlu'pu'bogh 'ay'mey leghlaw'pu' yabwIj. DIr
> meQlu'pu'bogh, DIr nguvmoHlu'pu'bogh rop ghap. 'ach pagh yIchoH;
> povqu'taH ('ej DeSDu'vetlh choHpu'bogh wanI''e' muSIvmoHbej).
Qov:
> vIQIjchu'be'law'.
ghobe', DaQIjchu'ta'. Klingon's lack of tense has let me down here,
I think. When I said DeSDu' choHpu'bogh wanI''e' muSIvmoHbej, what
I meant was that it *made* me wonder about what happened to his
arms, not that it still makes me wonder. The story as you wrote it
did a good job at hinting at what happened without fully explaining
it until later, and I liked how I was kept wondering for a while.
jIH:
> I also seem to remember a problem with trying to solve the QAO
> argument was that "QAO" really meant two different types of
> construction.
(poD chatlhwIj law')
Qov:
> I think one argument against the second is the slippery slope to
> the first.
For me they're mutually incompatible interpretations. It's possible
to set up a sentence that means two completely different things,
depending on whether one accepts one or the other variation of QAO:
nuq vISop DaneH could mean "you want what I'm eating", or it could
mean "what do you want me to eat?".
Anyway.
Qov:
> ghutar Ho'Du' Say'choHmoH - yes
jIH:
> See, here I'd have to disagree. To me that reads like it could
> just as easily be someone else cleaning Ghutar's teeth, and that's
> how I'd interpret it at first.
Qov:
> But the other reads as if the Ghutar is cleaning the previously
> mentioned person's teeth.
> puchpa' 'el ghIrel. Ho'Du'Daj Say'choHmoH ghutar.
> puchpa' 'el ghIrel. ghutar Ho'Du' Say'choHmoH.
> Okay, now it does sound like ghIrel is cleaning the teeth, but I
> believe it's because I'm thinking in English a bit.
> We don't have much trouble with this in English:
> Ghirel entered the batlhroom. Ghutar started cleaning his teeth.
> Hmm, okay maybe a bit. Maybe Ghirel survived the accident but is a
> quadriplegic now and Ghutar has to brush his teeth.
Hm. I guess this all shows how important context is to interpreting
who the antecedent is.
> You can see why I can't say Ho'Du'Daj Say'choHmoH ghutar if there's
> anyone else in the previous sentence, right?
Oh, absolutely. I don't disagree with that at all.
Qov:
> I mean Sar.
...(poD)
> Maybe I even mean pImchu'ghach. nuq DamaS?
jIH:
> I never thought I'd see myself preferring a sentence with a -ghach'ed
> verb...
Qov:
> Hee hee. I always feel guilty when I pull them out, but while they
> can be a hallmark of bad, bad Klingon (as recently discussed with
> <'eng bIr>), they have their place.
Of course! And I guess the trick is to get to the point where that place
can be recognised.
> Thanks for helping me improve my expressive powers in Klingon.
qaboQlaHmo' jIbel. Hell, I've spent ages taking tips from you and other
po'wI'pu' to improve my own Klingon so it's about time I was able to
return the favour...
> Now I need a strategy to keep -w and w' words distinct in my mind.
> I swear I've used Saw' three times and looked it up six!
Like you were saying the other day, if only the qaghwI' had some other
symbol. An apostrophe's too easy to forget about. :) The one I always
forget is whether SeHlaw has one or not. (...I hope it doesn't, or I've
just proven my own point!)
QeS 'utlh
