[89300] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: chIjwI' tIQ bom: 'ay' cha'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Wed Aug 31 14:05:30 2011
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:58:15 -0700
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
In-Reply-To: <BAY166-W60E0B925E2068858F7FD23AA160@phx.gbl>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reading now with the English translation. Different experience, maybe
also because it`s morning for me and I`m no longer tired.
><< DaH maH nIHDaq narghchoH jul'e':
>bIQ'a'vo' SalchoHpu',
>luSo'taH 'eng, ghIq maH poSDaq,
>bIQ'a'Daq ghIrqa'qu'.
>
>'ej maH 'emDaq taHtaH tIng SuS,
>'ach tlha'be'qu' bo'Degh,
>'ej SojvaD belvaD joq cheghQo',
>majach 'ach pagh wIlegh.
I can admire better how you're cast and translated this, now I see
where it's coming from.
><< petaQ!>> jatlh chaH: << bo'Degh'e' yaH,
>'ej SuS'e', qaSqa'Qo'.>>
This makes more sense now.
>Hurghbe', Doqbe', qab wovqu' rur
Now I can wonder in two languages what it has to do with a head. I
can't say you haven't faithfully translated it. Now I understand why
you accepted so many of my baffled translations without correcting me.
>Salqu'DI' jul 'IH'e';
><< maj,>> ghIq jatlh Hoch, << yaH bo'Degh joch,
>'eng qaSmoHbogh Dep'e'.>>
><< lughchu',>> jatlh chaH: << Hegh bo'Degh, yaH
>'eng qaSmoHbogh Dep'e'.>>
So it doesn't make sense in the English, either why they fickley
oscillate from "hoorors, you killed the bird" to "good, you killed
the bird" and back again.
>taHqu' SuS tIS, joq bIQ'a' chIS,
I suggest yu'egh chIS. I understood bIQ'a' chIS as frozen ocean, and
it confused me, as does the joq. Didn't they both happen?
>'ej Hab tlha'bogh yu'egh.
I'm pretty sure the furrow is the wake of the boat here, and the
sense should be that of untracked wilderness. No suggestions how though. :-)
>bIQ'a'vetlh tam wItu', wISam;
>not leghpu' latlh nuv Segh.
>
>'ach pay' mev SuS, joqbe' vo'wI',
>ma'IQchoH je Hoch maH;
>tammo' bIQ'a' pagh'e' wIja',
>wItamHa'be'moHtaH.
Isn't your translation the opposite of the poem? My read of Coleridge
is tammo' bIQ'a' chIch tamHa'moHmeH jatlh chaH.
You've deliberately inverted the order of the next two verses? If
there's a grammatical reason I've missed it.
>qaStaH ngIq jaj, qaStaH ngIq jaj,
>ratlh vIHbe'taHghach Huj;
>'ej bIQ'a'Daq ghItlhlu'pu'bogh
>Duj ghItlhlu'bogh rur Duj.
naDev mu'meylIj qaq law' Colridge mu'mey qaq puS. 'a Hol QIv lo'nIS ghaH. :-)
>baS Doq rurqu'bogh chal tujDaq
>jul nguvmoHlaw' 'Iw'e'.
>DungluQ maH DungDaq ratlhtaH 'oH,
>'ej maS'e' So'laHbe'.
As good as it could be, really.
>Dat bIQ tu'lu', Dat bIQ tu'lu',
>'ach QaDchoH choQ Sor Hap;
>Dat bIQ tu'lu', Dat bIQ tu'lu',
>'ach Dach tlhutlhmeH bIQ yap.
I didn't get the point of the decks becoming dry in the Klingon, but
I'm sure many people don't get that the decks shrink because they're
dry in the English. Something has to be implied and there's no way I
want to mess with this well rhymed verse. You do it right and it
looks like it just happened to rhyme naturally, with no effort on your part.
>raghchoHqu' bIQ'a''e': QI'yaH!
I do prefer non. ragh makes me think first of metal, where I would
have got this right away with non.
>wanI'meyvam DIpar!
I adore this. You've taken a kind of withering line and replaced it
with something that makes you say "quSDaq bIba'," yet it's a perfect
translation of the sense.
>'ej bIQ'a' charDaq lengchoHqu'
>Sarqu'bogh Depmey char.
Sort of a shame you lose the legs, as they are such a big wtf for the
poem. (My previous exposure to this may have been all via Douglas Adams).
>nuDech, nuDech 'ej mI' Hegh Sech,
>ramvetlh wovmoHwI' nov;
>rItlh DIjbogh veqlargh rur bIQ'a',
>SuD 'oH, 'ej chIS, 'ej wov.
Interesting. "About" here I'm pretty sure actually means tlhe' or
DIng. I can't claim that your first two lines are any less parseble
than Coleridge's. I sometimes dislike your use of sentence
conjunctions as makeweight, and this is one of those places.
"They surround us, they surround us and the death torches dance, that
night's alien lights."
The "'ej" leaves me wondering, "okay what surrounds us?" because I
was waiting for the subject of that verb, but now we're starting a
new phrase, so I'm not getting one.
The second two lines are great, though, now that I'm awake.
>'ej QongDI' 'op 'ej najDI' chaH,
You rocked this one. Coleridge's is so much more forced.
>nunuQbogh qa' lubej;
>bIQDaq vagh 'uj'a' Saw' 'IvDaj,
>'eng bIr qo'vo' nutlhej.
And I interpreted this wrong last night, just from fatigue. The whole
stanza is a win. Thanks for getting the exact correct sense with 'eng
bIr and not trying to struggle with bIrtaHghach peDtaHghach je. You
know there are people who would have!
>'ej QaDchoHpu' Hoch jatDu'maj,
>bIQ Hutlhlu'mo' Dach QIch:
>majatlhlaHbe', 'ej nIbchu' ghu'
>nuvoQmoHpu'chugh tlhIch.
Love the rhythm. I might have understood it quicker if the 'ej were a toH.
>mubejDI' qanwI' QupwI' je,
>toH! va! mumuSchu'qu'!
I'm amused that I got as close as "alas" from your "toH va!" and that
I wouldn't in a million years have got "Ah well-a-day". Coleridge,
what were you thinking?
>ta' mIgh 'oS yatqap net Harmo'
>mongwIjDaq 'oH HuSlu'.
Yeah, that was worth it. But totally worth trying without the English
as a test of both the poem and ones comprehension skills. Keep 'em coming.
Now I have to rip out five unsatisfactory chapters of nuq bop bom and
rewrite them. It's really hard to come up with a good emergency and
resolution on a space ship without devolving into tiny technical
details. "Oh no, the rudder has come loose, Billy you have to put it
back on!" Hmm. Damn, the scary thing is that that actually has
as much potential as the Dap I have.
- Qov
>--------
>Some of the poem's most famous lines appear in Part II:
>
>- "And slimy things did crawl with legs / upon the slimy sea."
>- "Water, water, everywhere / nor any drop to drink."
>- "As idle as a painted ship / upon a painted ocean."
>
>I had fun with this part, and sections of it came surprisingly easily.
>Some handy words surfaced that I've not had the chance to use before (one
>nice fit was {char} "be slimy"). In Part III the verse patterns and meter
>start to get a little crazier; I'll have to see how it goes.
>
>QeS 'utlh
>
