[89157] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: nuq bop bom: 'ay' wa'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Tue Aug 23 01:48:10 2011
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 22:34:35 -0700
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
In-Reply-To: <001701cc610e$c0422ae0$40c680a0$@trimboli.name>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Thank you so much for these, SuStel. I really appreciate your working
through it. I know I am rusty, so I was TRYING to go for quality not
quantity here, so that these things I have forgotten could be corrected.
> > meHDaq yaHDajDaq ba' vajar HoD.
>
>This needs aspect, or else it's automatically not continuous and not
>completed. Likewise for any verbs that show something happening in the
>story, but not for verbs that are simply describing the way things are.
I think I need some more help with this. I generally don't put an
aspect suffix on a verb until I need to contrast it with other action
in the paragraph. Are you saying that any verb must have an aspect
suffix? I totally don't remember that. Could you point me at the
rule? Or is it just that those particular sentences are confusing
because you can't tell the aspect of the action?
>For instance, {meHDaq yaHDajDaq ba'taH vajar HoD} and (from below) {nIn
>natlhbogh ngIvmeH DujDaj qelbe'taH HoD}, but {loQ tlhoch'egh qechvetlh}
>and {pIvchugh Hegh nejbe'}.
>
>I won't point out further aspect problems.
I'll revise the next chapter before I send it. Let me know if it's
better in this .. ahem .. aspect. :-)
> > ghaH tlhopDaq nIn tamey cha' HaStaHom,
> > 'ach nIn natlhbogh ngIvmeH DujDaj qelbe' HoD.
> >
> > DujDaj HubtaHvIS Hegh 'e' tul Hoch tlhIngan net Sov. 'a loQ tlhoch'egh
> > qechvetlh. chIch HeghmeH tlhIngan Suvbe'.
>
>"A Klingon doesn't fight, so he can die intentionally."
Ugh, yeah. Thanks.
>Unfortunately
>your real meaning is a bit harder to do. Maybe {HeghvaD neH Suvbe'
>tlhIngan}.
That's a lot better.
> > pIvchugh Hegh nejbe' ghaH.
> > QapmeH Suv. yIn Qap chavchoHDI' SuvwI'
>
>Add some punctuation to that one. At first I thought it meant "when a
>warrior starts to achieve a life success"?
That's actually what I meant. What other meanings can you get? I
guess it could mean: yIn SuvwI', Qap chavchoHDI' SuvwI'.
>Too many possible
>interpretations!
>
> > 'ej Hoch jaj yInmeH
> > SuvnISbe'DI',
>
>Same clitic {-be'} probably as before.
I'm looking for "When he doesn't need to fight every day in order to
survive." What do you get from it?
> > may' bopchu'be'bogh yIn'e' qelchoH.
>
>Using {-chu'} here seems hyperbolic.
Okay. Life can be about battle without being entirely about battle.
> > wo'vaD qa'vaD quvvaD
> > je Suvba', 'ach wo' qa' je je'meH 'ut je chavmey'e' Delbe'bogh jagh
> > 'Iw.
>
>I hate seeing {Del} and {qel} used generally like this. I'm not clear on
>what {chavmey'e' Delbe'bogh jagh 'Iw} "achievements which the enemy's
>blood does not describe" means.
Oh, sad that you don't like it. I was quite fond of it. Maybe you
prefer chavmey'e' juvbe'bogh jagh 'Iw.
> > may' neH buSchugh SuvwI', qanchoHDI' ghaH Hegh nejchoHmo'
> > yepHa'choH. HoD qan le'yo'mo' Hegh tlhIngan Qup 'ej Duj chIl tlhIngan
> > wo'.
>
>I don't think {chIl} is the right word here. Nothing is misplaced. Maybe
>{tlhIngan wo'vo' Duj nge'lu'pu'}.
I'll change it to tlhIngan wo' Duj Qawlu'. I appreciate your
vigilance in preventing the spread of meanings to match English ones.
> > qaSbe'meH SeQpIr ghItlhmey, HIq qub, QoQ Qatlh, rurbogh Qu' joq
> > SaHnIS HoD.
>
>{rurbogh Qu'}?
"a task that resembles those" - not clear?
> > ngervetlh Har vajar. loD qan mojpa' Qu'Hom neH, 'a laD 'e'
> > tIvbe'.
>
>Huh? He wants a task before he becomes an old man, but he doesn't like
>to read? 'utbe' bel, dude.
Heh, that vIttlhegh was actually in a trimmed paragraph. Yeah, hard
to believe I cut anything from this, I know, but I did.
> > HIq tlhutlh 'e' tIv 'ach lubelmoH Hoch HIqmey.
>
>That should probably be {Hoch HIq}, unless he likes to mix every kind of
>drink into a cauldron and drink it like that.
Ha ha, probably does, but thanks.
> > qubchugh
> > SaHbe'. HIq tlhutlhtaHvIS bom 'e' tIv. bommey qatchugh QoQ jan,
> > chu'wI'pu' naD 'ach chuS'ugh Seghmey ngu'laHbe'.
> >
> > wa'logh vajar DuQchu' QoQ. wanI' jum 'oH.
>
>jum wanI'.
qaq.
> > ngIvmeH DujvamDaq vumchoHpa'
> > vajar, ngaqmeH lupwI'Daq Hung yaS ghaH.
>
>Isn't {ngaq} a noun? {ngaq lupwI'}.
bIlugh. ghunchu'wI' caught that one.
> > may'Duj Dor ngaqmeH Duj. nov
> > Duj jonta' chang'eng. may'DujDaq qama'pu' HochHom luweghlu'
>
>HochHom qama'pu'.
Ah yeah, I got that backwards. I'd have to disassemble the prisoners
for qama'pu' HochHom to make sense.
> > 'ach
> > ngaqmeH Duj bIghHa' machDaq wa' nov tu'lu'. potlhbe' ghaH. loQ
> > lujoy'ta' 'ach rIQqu'be'. bIghHa'Daq ba' neH. 'IQlaw'. chaq mobmo'
> > 'IQ. rut bom nov. jatlhtaHvIS ghaH puj ghoghDaj 'ej va[Q]Ha', 'ach
> > bomchoHDI' rachchoH
>
>rach'eghchoH?
>
>Is this from the point of view of Vajar? Maybe it should be
>{rach'eghchoHlaw'}.
bIlugh.
> > 'ej SuS HoS rech.
>
>I don't understand this. "and he exhales strong wind." You're not
>talking about exhaling forcefully (pe'vIl), are you?
I was thinking N-N "the strength of the wind" and didn't notice the
adjectival read. I'll rework it. Or scrap it.
> > nov Hol yajbe'chu' vajar 'ach
> > ghaH DuQchu' wabmey watlh lIngbogh nov ghogh. 'avwI'vaD jatlh qama'
> > net tuch. bomchoHDI' nov luqIp 'ej lutammoH latlh 'avwI' 'e' Sov vajar
> > 'ach vajarvaD pIm bom QIch je, vaj bom nov 'e' chaw' vajar. rut
> > bompa' pagh bompu'DI' nov loQ jatlh. jatlhchoHDI' nov reH qu'choH
> > vajar 'ej jach bIjatlh 'e' yImev.
>
>I don't think {jach} is one of the verbs of saying. I think only {jatlh}
>and {ja'} are.
I'll check ahead for that.
>I'd also consider using clipped Klingon here. I can imagine an annoyed
>Klingon clipping this to {jatlh 'e' mev}.
lu'.
> > Dugh ghaH 'ach may 'ej naSbe'.
>
>I found the perspective to be a little confusing. Sometimes the point of
>view is Vajar's; sometimes it seems to be from an omnicient narrator.
Point taken.
>If the perspective, and the topic of a paragraph, were clearer, you
>could probably dispense with the many pronouns you've used.
>
>I like a story about Klingons not acting out their stereotypes.
>
>--
>SuStel
>http://www.trimboli.name/
