[83990] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Missing question words
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Doq)
Wed Jan 16 14:51:23 2008
From: Doq <doq@embarqmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20080116115735.03bdcc90@imap.uchicago.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:48:12 -0500
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
How about:
naDev juHwIjDaq je joj 'oH wa'SaD qelI'qam'e'.
Doq
On Jan 16, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Steven Boozer wrote:
> Doq wrote:
>> I think it helps to keep in mind that {ghoS} implies motion, while
>> {Hop} and {Sum} do not. I don't think that {legh} implies motion,
>> either, but given the canon example of {-vo'} in CK, it looks as if
>> perhaps Klingons consider vision to be an action that begins with the
>> person seeing and moves out to the target of their vision. Perhaps,
>> since for a Klingon, vision is so often practiced through the sights
>> of a weapon, that might explain the association with motion.
>
> As always, context determines everything. Here's the scene from
> "Conversational Klingon":
>
> T: yejquv vaS'a' vISuch vIneH. cha'puj tlhIlHal vISuch vIneH.
> I want to visit the Great Hall of the High Council. I want
> to visit the dilithium mines.
>
> K: Sum Daqmeyvam, tera'ngan.
> These places are nearby, Terran.
>
> T: pa' jIyIt'a'?
> Can I walk there?
>
> K: ghobe'. lupwI' DalIghnIS. yIyong 'ej pa' yIQam!
> No. You must ride the jitney. Get in and stand there.
>
> T: naDevvo' jIleghlaHchu'be'.
> I can't see well from here.
>
> K: HoS lIngwI' wIjuS. 'IH, qar'a'?
> We're passing a power generator. It's beautiful, isn't it?
>
> T: DaH vay' vIlarghlaH. mu'aw' mInDu'wIj! Daqvam nuq?
> Now I can smell something. My eyes sting [me]! What is this place?
>
> K: pegh De'vetlh.
> That is classified information.
>
>
>> I think it is interesting to note that {naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq
>> majaHlaH'a'?} could have also been expressed as {vaS'a'
>> wIjaHlaH'a'?}.
>> By necessity, they would begin their journey {naDev}, and the target
>> of the motion could be either a locative or a direct object, with or
>> without {-Daq}. Sometimes, I get the feeling that Okrand
>> intentionally
>> makes the humans in CK say things in strange and excessively explicit
>> ways, perhaps parodying the Berlitz tapes. That would explain a lot
>> of
>> CK canon.
>>
>> My problem with {-vo'}/{-Daq} for an expression of distance is that
>> it
>> implies motion, and "distance" does not. If you used {joj}, you
>> could
>> similarly describe the distance without implying any directional
>> motion. Meanwhile, I doubt we have much in the way of canon use of
>> {joj} and I personally find it somewhat awkward to use.
>
> Okrand on {-vo'} and {-Daq}:
>
> st.k 3/23/98: In Klingon, however, the noun suffixes {-Daq} (the
> general
> locative) and {-vo'} from express only notions related to space ("to a
> place", "in a place", "from a place", and so on). They are thus not
> the
> same as English prepositions, which have a wider range of usage.
>
> N.B. space--not motion. Motion, if any, is determined by the verb.
>
> FYI: Other examples of both suffixes used together:
>
> st.k 11/21/99: There is an idiomatic expression still heard with
> reasonable frequency which makes use of all three cardinal direction
> terms:
> {tIngvo' 'evDaq chanDaq}. Literally, this means "from area-
> southwestward to
> area-northwestward to area eastward", but the idiom means "all
> around",
> "all over", "all over the place". It is used in the same place in a
> sentence that the noun {Dat} "everywhere" might be used, but it is
> much
> more emphatic: {tIngvo' 'evDaq chanDaq jIlengpu'} "I've traveled
> all over
> the place". A more archaic form of the idiom is {tIngvo' 'evDaq 'evvo'
> chanDaq} (literally, "from area-southwestward to area-northwestward,
> from
> area-northwestward to area eastward"), but the three-word version
> (without
> the repetition of {'ev}) has all but totally replaced it.
>
> juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'
> During the (aggressive) expansion of the Klingon people from their
> homeworld of Kronos into space... SP1
>
> qa'vaj:
>>> That's also why I think that something like {naDevvo' juHwIjDaq
>>> wa'SaD
>>> qelI'qam ....} is the way to specify the distance. I just don't
>>> know
>>> how to complete the puzzle. Maybe {naDevvo' juHwIjDaq wa'SaD
>>> qelI'qam
>>> 'abbogh chuq tu'lu'}.
>
> Since this discussion has migrated to more than one thread I may have
> missed it, but what's wrong with simply:
>
> naDevvo' juHwIjDaq wa'SaD qelI'qam 'oH chuq'e'.
> The distance from here to my house is 1,000 kellicams.
> From here to my house the distance is 1,000 kellicams.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
