[83989] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Missing question words
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Wed Jan 16 13:53:52 2008
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:52:29 -0600
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <266A0857-4080-4366-BC7A-5B56EC774D1F@embarqmail.com>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Doq wrote:
>I think it helps to keep in mind that {ghoS} implies motion, while
>{Hop} and {Sum} do not. I don't think that {legh} implies motion,
>either, but given the canon example of {-vo'} in CK, it looks as if
>perhaps Klingons consider vision to be an action that begins with the
>person seeing and moves out to the target of their vision. Perhaps,
>since for a Klingon, vision is so often practiced through the sights
>of a weapon, that might explain the association with motion.
As always, context determines everything. Here's the scene from
"Conversational Klingon":
T: yejquv vaS'a' vISuch vIneH. cha'puj tlhIlHal vISuch vIneH.
I want to visit the Great Hall of the High Council. I want
to visit the dilithium mines.
K: Sum Daqmeyvam, tera'ngan.
These places are nearby, Terran.
T: pa' jIyIt'a'?
Can I walk there?
K: ghobe'. lupwI' DalIghnIS. yIyong 'ej pa' yIQam!
No. You must ride the jitney. Get in and stand there.
T: naDevvo' jIleghlaHchu'be'.
I can't see well from here.
K: HoS lIngwI' wIjuS. 'IH, qar'a'?
We're passing a power generator. It's beautiful, isn't it?
T: DaH vay' vIlarghlaH. mu'aw' mInDu'wIj! Daqvam nuq?
Now I can smell something. My eyes sting [me]! What is this place?
K: pegh De'vetlh.
That is classified information.
>I think it is interesting to note that {naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq
>majaHlaH'a'?} could have also been expressed as {vaS'a' wIjaHlaH'a'?}.
>By necessity, they would begin their journey {naDev}, and the target
>of the motion could be either a locative or a direct object, with or
>without {-Daq}. Sometimes, I get the feeling that Okrand intentionally
>makes the humans in CK say things in strange and excessively explicit
>ways, perhaps parodying the Berlitz tapes. That would explain a lot of
>CK canon.
>
>My problem with {-vo'}/{-Daq} for an expression of distance is that it
>implies motion, and "distance" does not. If you used {joj}, you could
>similarly describe the distance without implying any directional
>motion. Meanwhile, I doubt we have much in the way of canon use of
>{joj} and I personally find it somewhat awkward to use.
Okrand on {-vo'} and {-Daq}:
st.k 3/23/98: In Klingon, however, the noun suffixes {-Daq} (the general
locative) and {-vo'} from express only notions related to space ("to a
place", "in a place", "from a place", and so on). They are thus not the
same as English prepositions, which have a wider range of usage.
N.B. space--not motion. Motion, if any, is determined by the verb.
FYI: Other examples of both suffixes used together:
st.k 11/21/99: There is an idiomatic expression still heard with
reasonable frequency which makes use of all three cardinal direction terms:
{tIngvo' 'evDaq chanDaq}. Literally, this means "from area-southwestward to
area-northwestward to area eastward", but the idiom means "all around",
"all over", "all over the place". It is used in the same place in a
sentence that the noun {Dat} "everywhere" might be used, but it is much
more emphatic: {tIngvo' 'evDaq chanDaq jIlengpu'} "I've traveled all over
the place". A more archaic form of the idiom is {tIngvo' 'evDaq 'evvo'
chanDaq} (literally, "from area-southwestward to area-northwestward, from
area-northwestward to area eastward"), but the three-word version (without
the repetition of {'ev}) has all but totally replaced it.
juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'
During the (aggressive) expansion of the Klingon people from their
homeworld of Kronos into space... SP1
qa'vaj:
> > That's also why I think that something like {naDevvo' juHwIjDaq wa'SaD
> > qelI'qam ....} is the way to specify the distance. I just don't know
> > how to complete the puzzle. Maybe {naDevvo' juHwIjDaq wa'SaD qelI'qam
> > 'abbogh chuq tu'lu'}.
Since this discussion has migrated to more than one thread I may have
missed it, but what's wrong with simply:
naDevvo' juHwIjDaq wa'SaD qelI'qam 'oH chuq'e'.
The distance from here to my house is 1,000 kellicams.
From here to my house the distance is 1,000 kellicams.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
