[83934] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Topic (was Re: Specifying distance traveled)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Doq)
Fri Jan 11 12:57:56 2008
From: Doq <doq@embarqmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <BAY127-W611917AF83A4FC5BCC101AA4B0@phx.gbl>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:55:52 -0500
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
You are arguing for the interpretation I have always had of this
example. It was what I used to justify {-'e'} as a marker for a header
noun. That's what I mean by context. In the context of warriors in the
galaxy, you are the greatest. Meanwhile, as you point out, there are
no other examples of {-'e'} marking a noun hanging out in the header
with no subject or predicate role.
Meanwhile, comparatives are different enough from other Klingon
grammar, that it's hard to argue that a comparative is the only canon
we have for justifying this idea that context is set by a header noun
with {-'e'}.
Lacking any other examples, what do we do with this?
Doq
On Jan 11, 2008, at 9:30 AM, QeS 'utlh wrote:
>
> ghItlhpu' Doq, ja':
>> Reading again all that you have assembled and looking more closely at
>> all the canon, it seems that {-'e'} is only used for emphasis.
>
> I still believe that the example from ST5 (viz. {qIbDaq SuvwI''e' SoH
> Dun law' Hoch Dun puS}) is an example of {-'e'} used to topicalise
> rather than emphasise. It's the only incontrovertible usage of
> {-'e'} as a
> header noun, but I'm not comfortable analysing it as an apposition to
> {Hoch}, since surely the simpler {qIbDaq SoH Dun law' Hoch SuvwI''e'
> Dun puS} "you are greater than all warriors in the galaxy" would be
> more likely if {-'e'} were simply being used for emphasis.
>
> On top of that, we have no evidence for apposition of this sort
> elsewhere
> in Klingon, and certainly not when there's a mismatch between noun
> functions: in {SuvwI'vaD cheng 'ang} "he revealed Chang for the
> benefit
> of the warrior", I would never, not in a million years, interpret
> {SuvwI'vaD} and {cheng} as referring to the same person. By analysing
> {SuvwI''e'} here as an apposition to {Hoch}, essentially you're
> claiming
> that you would be happy with such an analysis.
>
> Also, if you analyse {SuvwI''e'} as an appositional noun to {Hoch},
> the
> connection between {SoH} and {SuvwI''e'} is lost. Analysed as a
> simple comparative with two headers, things become clearer: [in the
> galaxy]
> [as for warriors] [you are greater than all] - implying that not
> only are
> {Hoch} warriors, but so is {SoH}. The English translation, for what
> it's
> worth, supports this connection 100%: "you would be the greatest
> warrior in the galaxy".
>
> QeS 'utlh
> tlhIngan Hol yejHaD pab po'wI'
> (Grammarian of the Klingon Language Institute)
>
>
> not nItoj Hemey ngo' juppu' ngo' je
> (Old roads and old friends will never deceive you)
> - Ubykh Hol vIttlhegh
>
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