[83898] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Specifying distance traveled (was Art of War Chp. 2 (section 1/3))
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Trimboli)
Wed Jan 9 13:31:08 2008
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:28:01 -0500
From: David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
In-reply-to: <ABBF82EE-0EFF-4B21-B33B-7EFA112D8C5D@embarqmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Doq wrote:
> I respect your opinion, but I don't understand why I fail to convey
> the meaning of "I traveled 1,000 miles," if in English, I simply
> shouted, "A THOUSAND MILES!" and then paused and said, "I traveled."
>
> For me, that's what the topicalizer does. It's like I'm holding a sign
> over my head that says, "1,000 miles" and I say, "I traveled".
> Whatever I say while I hold that sign up is said in the context of
> what is on the sign. It's not the subject. It's not the object. It's
> the context. It's the topic.
>
> So, if that's not a functional use of topic, what is?
I could also hold up a sign that says "18-wheeler" and say "I traveled."
Did I travel TO an 18-wheeler? No, that would have been a locative. Did
I travel IN an 18-wheeler? Same problem. Because I LIKE 18-wheelers?
Because I DON'T like them? There is insufficient information to
determine the exact relationship of "18-wheeler" to my sentence.
Your example of the thousand-mile sign suffers from the same lack of
information. Just because you hold up a sign "1,000 miles" when you say
"I traveled" doesn't mean you traveled 1,000 miles. You could have heard
about a thousand-mile cruise, and decided to sign up, but your trip was
cut short. Maybe you traveled TO the launch-point of that cruise.
Naturally, in some cases it's easier to guess the relationship of this
forced topic to the sentence than in other cases. As others have
suggested, *{wa'SaD qelI'qam jIleng} isn't hard to figure out, even if
it's not grammatical. *{luDujHom, He vIchoH} is harder. I could make it
grammatical as {lupDujHom'e' He vIchoH} ("As for the shuttlecraft, I
changed course"), but it STILL doesn't mean much. Did I plot an
interception course with the shuttle? Did I turn away from it? Did I
plot a course to rescue my captain on the second moon of Jaglan Beta,
only to suddenly notice it dive into the sun and explode, so why bother
trying to rescue anybody? The sentence doesn't tell me.
Then there's a sentence like {Qa'Hom'e' jIQong}. What does THAT mean?
Topics provide to meaning to the sentence, except "this is what my
sentence is about." It is not a catchall for anything that SEEMS to make
sense with the sentence but which has no obvious grammatical plug-in for it.
I have no problem accepting the distance traveled, or even the course
followed, as the object of {leng}. There are many verbs we have no
examples of usage for, but that doesn't stop us from using them as best
we can. {wa'SaD qelI'qam vIleng} seems perfectly reasonable. If it's
wrong, Marc Okrand must tell us that before we go telling someone else
it's wrong.
SuStel
Stardate 8024.0
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