[83881] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Specifying distance traveled (was Art of War Chp. 2
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Tue Jan 8 12:51:52 2008
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:49:40 -0600
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <f5b478ef0801072131u5fe56a78hab2bf135daa73353@mail.gmail.co
m>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
At 11:31 PM Monday 1/7/2008, qa'vaj wrote:
>>Another "The Art of War"-related sentence question. In the following
>>snippit:
>>
>> wa'SaD qelI'qam [A] chuq lenglaHmeH negh, Soj poQlu
>> And provisions to carry them a thousand miles.
>>
>>It looks like {wa'SaD qelI'qam chuq} is the direct object of {leng}? Can
>>the distance traveled be stated this way? I recall that specifying the
>>distance traveled was a tricky problem, but if {leng} can take distance as a
>>D.O., it isn't tricky any more. (jIyIt. wa' qelI'qam chuq vIleng).
{chuq} "range, distance" in canon:
chorghSaD qelI'qam HIvchuq'e' vInoH
Estimating attack range in 8,000 kellicams. ST5
SuvwI' vI' Dub naQvam 'ej ray' HopDaq bachlu'meH chuqna' ghurmoH naQvam
This serves to steady the aim of a warrior and increase the effective
range for distance targeting. S14
jabbI'ID pup: Qapchu'meH 'aqroS chuq: cha' vI' chorgh loghqammey
High Resolution - Maximum Effective Range - 3.5 Light Years. KBoP
{leng} "roam, travel, rove" in canon:
'Iw bIQtIqDaq bIlengjaj
May you travel the River of Blood! PK
loS... qIb HeHDaq, 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH He
ghoSlu'bogh retlhDaq 'oHtaH
It waits... on the edge of the galaxy, beside a passage to unknown
regions of the universe. DS99
HaDlu'meH, QuSlu'meH, SuDlu'meH lojmIt Da logh Hop Hut tengchaH.
vaj loghDaq lenglaHtaH Humanpu'
space station Deep Space Nine is the gateway for the exploration,
intrigue and enterprise that mark the continuation of the human
adventure into space... DS99
juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'
During the (aggressive) expansion of the Klingon people from
their homeworld of Kronos into space... SP1
yuQ vIleng
yuQDaq vIleng
I travel to the planet. (HQ [12/1998])
yuQvo' jIleng
I roam away from the planet. (HQ [12/1998])
yuQDaq jIleng
I roam (around/about) on the planet. (HQ [12/1998])
loghDaq lupDujHom qoDDaq bIlengtaHvIS, nIbuQbogh novpu' DaSuv
Battle menacing aliens in a shuttlecraft journey through space. STX
lengtaH 'e' yIchaw'
Let them continue on their way. (ENT "The Augments")
TKD p.28: There are a few verbs whose meanings include locative notions,
such as {ghoS} "approach, proceed". The locative suffix [{-Daq}] need not
be used on nouns which are the objects of such verbs... If the locative
suffix is used with such verbs, the resulting sentence is somewhat
redundant, but not out-and-out wrong.
We see that {leng} is a verb of motion which can take an object, either as
an unsuffixed direct object or an indirect object marked with
{-Daq}. Either way, that object is the destination not the
distance. Which still leaves us unclear on how to say "I travelled a
thousand miles".
Doq:
>If you are unsure it could work as a direct object, certainly it could
>work as a topic, right? As for a thousand miles, they must have
>provisions in order to travel. This should be grammatically correct
>regardless of whether or not distance can be used as a direct object
>of {leng}. It's a dodge, but sometimes, dodging is good strategy.
Personally, I would omit {chuq} as it is redundant: "I travelled a
thousand miles" = "I travelled a distance of a thousand miles". Then I
would either place the distance at the front of the sentence as a type of
time stamp:
wa'SaD qelI'qam jIlengtaH
I've been travelling (for) a thousand kellicams
or tag it and set if off with {-'e'} as Doq suggests:
wa'SaD qelI'qam'e' jIlengtaH
a thousand kellicams I've been travelling
I think the first method works better when a destination is used:
wa'SaD qelI'qam veng wa'DIch vIleng.
I travelled a thousand kellicams to the First City.
For a thousand kellicams I travelled to the First City.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
