[83880] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Using the verb DuH (was Art of War Chp. 1 (section 3/3))
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Tue Jan 8 12:02:36 2008
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:01:01 -0600
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <f5b478ef0801072116x2b9d4b04l13f835c691fa8c46@mail.gmail.co
m>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
At 11:16 PM Monday 1/7/2008, qa'vaj wrote:
>This is in reference to a sentence from "The Art of War" in the following
>passage:
>
> Dupmeyvammo' Qaplu'.
> vIHchoHpa' gho luwuqlu'meH DuHbe'.
>
> These are the strategies leading to victory.
> They cannot be settled in advance [D].
>
>I went over and over the last sentence trying to figure out what the subject
>of {DuHbe'} is. {DuH}, "be possible", is a hard verb to use because it begs
>to have a sentence-as-subject construction. I kept wanting to use the
>generic 'It' as the subject "It's not possible to decide these strategies in
>advance", which I know is wrong (SIS notwithstanding). However, I finally
>decided that {Dupmeyvam} must be the subject, and perhaps this sentence is
>following the {Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam} template for the usage of a {-meH}
>clause. This is an interesting way to solve the problem of using DuH, and
>since 'ISqu' didn't footnote it, I wonder if this has been discussed
>somewhere (HolQeD?). I have a vague recollection of following a thread here
>in the forum regarding DuH, but don't recall the outcome.
{DuH} "be possible" (v.) has been used just once:
yIntaHvIS qIrq DuHbe' roj
There will be no peace as long as Kirk lives. (ST5 notes)
The synonym {qIt} "be possible" has never been used.
>Using {-meH} is a clever way to go, but it doesn't look like it works as a
>general solution. "It's not possible to open that door." {lojmItvetlh
>poSmoHlu'meH DuHbe' ???}.
Here you would use {-laH} (ability). Unfortunately, it cannot be used with
{-lu'} (indefinite subject):
TKD p.38: The two suffixes of Type 5 [i.e. {-lu'} and {-laH}] have nothing
much to do with each other except for both being Type 5. As a result, no
verb occurs with both of these suffixes at the same time.
KGT 181: Among those suffixes that can never occur together are -lu'
(indefinite subject indicator) and {-laH} (can, able). The former is used
when the subject is unknown or indefinite, often translated into Federation
Standard by means of the passive voice: {jagh jonlu'} ("One captures the
enemy", or "The enemy is captured"). The latter is used to express
ability: {jagh jonlaH} ("He/she can capture the enemy"). If it is
desirable to express the ideas of "indefinite subject" and "ability" at the
same time, such as in the sentences "One can capture the enemy" or "The
enemy can be captured", it is not uncommon to use the noun {vay'}
("somebody, anybody") as the subject of the sentence: {jagh jonlaH vay'}
("Somebody can capture the enemy", or "Anybody can capture the enemy").
Nevertheless, some speakers seem to want to put the two concepts into
a single word, and, on rare occasion, they will do so. Rather than
violating the rules by using the two suffixes sequentially (that is,
{-lu'laH} or {-laHlu'}), however, these speakers will say either {-luH} or
{-la'}, employing totally artificial, made-up suffixes formed by fusing
{-lu'} and {-laH}, as in {jagh jonluH} or {jagh jonla'} ("The enemy can be
captured"). No one accepts such constructions as grammatical; their
inappropriateness, the way they grate on the Klingon ear, is exactly what
gives them elocutionary clout. A visitor may hear one of these odd suffixes
occasionally, but, as with other intentionally ungrammatical forms, it is
best to avoid using them until one is extremely comfortable with the
nuances of Klingon style.
So the "proper" way to translate "It's not possible to open that door" is
with {vay'} "somebody, anyone" or even {pagh} "no one" as a subject:
lojmItvetlh poSmoHlaHbe' vay'
Somebody/anybody cannot open that door.
lojmItvetlh poSmoHlaH pagh
No one can open that door.
For comparison, see:
yIntaHvIS qeylIS'e' lIjlaHbe'bogh vay' batlh 'etlhvam chenmoHlu'pu'
this sword of honor descends from the time of Kahless the Unforgettable. S8
N.B. {qeylIS'e' lIjlaHbe'bogh vay'} "Kahless, whom anyone is unable to forget"
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
