[83856] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: mu'ghomwIj
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Doq)
Sat Jan 5 16:24:51 2008
From: Doq <doq@embarqmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <E1JBFm5-0008NK-FS@chain.digitalkingdom.org>
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 16:22:38 -0500
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In English, "fishes" usually refers to multiple species of fish. The
problem is that we get very little in the way of guidelines as to
whether a word behaves in the same unusual ways in Klingon as the
English translation.
We have words like {vIH} and {chagh}, for instance. "I move the rock.
The airplane moves through the sky." The moving object in the first
sentence is the direct object. The moving object in the second
sentence is the subject. Which way does {vIH} work? Both ways?
"I dropped the knife. The airplane dropped 2,000 feet before regaining
control." The moving object in the first sentence is the direct
object. The moving object in the second sentence is the subject. Which
way does {chagh} behave? Both ways?
I do believe that {ghotI'} SHOULD take a plural suffix. Meanwhile, it
is very rare that Okrand clues us in on stuff like this. He did tell
us that {Duran lung DIr} never takes a plural suffix, but likely,
that's because the English gloss already has one.
I just wish I had more clues. I wish the dictionary was as good at
describing the definitions as it is at describing the overall grammar.
It's less of a dictionary than it is a grammar tutorial with a word
list at the back. I wish we had a better dictionary.
Doq
On Jan 5, 2008, at 3:35 PM, Jonathan Webley wrote:
> Surely {ghotI'} can take a plural suffix. Just because an English
> word is
> irregular does not imply that its equivalent in any other language
> is also
> irregular. Anyway, "fish" has a plural, "fishes" - it is countable.
>
> Jon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org [mailto:tlhingan-hol-
> bounce@kli.org] On
> Behalf Of Doq
> Sent: 05 January 2008 19:06
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject: Re: mu'ghomwIj
>
> mu' qar vISammeH mu'mey vIbuv. Hol lo'wI'pu' neH vIleghchugh, qorDu'
> mu'mey vISamlaHbej.
>
> mu'mey vIbuvchugh, 'ej ghomvam vIbuvqa'chugh 'ej ghomvam'e'
> vIbuvqa'chugh, wa' mu' ngaS Hoch ghomqoq. vumbogh vuS vIwuqnIS.
>
> chaq qorDu' mu' DapoQ. DaH ghomvam vIpoQbe'law'.
>
> pIjHa' qorDu' vIqel.
>
> ...
>
> qechvam vIqelqa'. lu'. qorDu' mu' vIbuv.
>
> latlh qech vIghaj, je. DIpmey DatoghlaHbe'bogh vIbuv. <<bIQ, chal,
> beqpuj, ben, leS>> not <<-mey, -Du', -pu'>> lo' DIpmeyvam.
>
> 'ach <<ghotI'>> yIqel. DIvI' Hol Dalo'taHvIS, wa' mu' neH lo' wa'
> ghotI', ghotI'mey law' je. ghotI' toghluH'a'?
>
> Doq
>
> On Jan 5, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Lieven Litaer wrote:
>
>>
>>> Daj. mu'ghomwIj vIwavbe'/buvbe', 'ach QaHmeH navmeywIj vIgherbogh
>>> rur.
>>>
>>> buvmeylIj'e', chay' [tey', lor, 'IrneH, ...] Dabuv?
>>
>> lughbej DloraH. wa' Segh DaHutlh. mu'meyvetlh buvlu'meH buv pong
>> *family* (qorDu') vIchup.
>>
>> Quvar.
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