[112257] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] when -laH cripples the -lu'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Mar 18 14:21:07 2019
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 14:21:02 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKQC2Xpov_39Ybza6cq2O+NbKH98E4A1UKw6vnXC6vtBg@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============4578579410432733647==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------0A7E041F51362E3EEC043D21"
Content-Language: en-US
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------0A7E041F51362E3EEC043D21
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 3/18/2019 2:09 PM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
> SuStel:
> > Show me a text you want to translate that you think runs
> > into an irreconcilable *-lu'/laH* clash.
>
> I'm afraid you misunderstood me.
>
> The problem (or at least my problem..), isn't that I come across the
> need to say "someone who is unable", and can't find the way to say it,
> without breaking the -lu'/-laH rule.
>
> The problem is, that if I start the passage writing e.g.
> {vumlu'taHvIS, 'ej Doy'qu'lu'taHvIS, qeqnISlu'chugh..}, and suddenly I
> need to say "but he is unable to train", I would then need to switch
> off the -lu', to some other solution.
>
> Perhaps I would say {qeqlaHbe'}, {qeqlaHbe' vay'}, {qeqlaHbe' nuv},
> {qeqlaHbe' vumqu'wI'}, etc.
>
> But doing so, I would have to switch from talking about someone
> "unspecified", to someone "specified".
>
> Now, don't ask me what the actual difference is, between the "someone"
> described by the -lu', and the "someone" described by the vay'. In
> greek we don't have something similar, so I can't *feel* the
> difference between the two.
>
> But I think sometime in the past, it had been said in a discussion on
> the -lu', that once someone starts using in a long passage the -lu',
> then it would be preferable if he didn't use -lu' and -vay' (or some
> other solution) interchangeably.
I'd just use *vay'* with the *-laH *and forget about it.
Actually I'd probably use *vay'* for the whole thing, provided I didn't
need to repeat it. *vumtaHvIS vay' 'ej Doy'qu'taHvIS, qeqnISchugh 'ach
qaqlaHbe'chugh...*
Again, I'd need to see this in its larger context. You'll generally have
to reword something that will end up with a *-laH* and *-lu'* together
anyway.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
--------------0A7E041F51362E3EEC043D21
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/18/2019 2:09 PM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cKQC2Xpov_39Ybza6cq2O+NbKH98E4A1UKw6vnXC6vtBg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">SuStel:</span></div>
<span style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">> Show me
a text you want to translate that you think runs </span>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">> into an
irreconcilable </span><b
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">-lu'/laH</b><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"> clash.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">I'm afraid you
misunderstood me.</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">The problem (or at least my
problem..), isn't that I come across the need to say
"someone who is unable", and can't find the way to say it,
without breaking the -lu'/-laH rule.</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">The problem is, that if I start the
passage writing e.g. {vumlu'taHvIS, 'ej Doy'qu'lu'taHvIS,
qeqnISlu'chugh..}, and suddenly I need to say "but he is
unable to train", I would then need to switch off the -lu',
to some other solution.</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Perhaps I would say {qeqlaHbe'},
{qeqlaHbe' vay'}, {qeqlaHbe' nuv}, {qeqlaHbe' vumqu'wI'},
etc.</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">But doing so, I would have to
switch from talking about someone "unspecified", to someone
"specified".</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Now, don't ask me what the actual
difference is, between the "someone" described by the -lu',
and the "someone" described by the vay'. In greek we don't
have something similar, so I can't *feel* the difference
between the two.</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">But I think sometime in the past,
it had been said in a discussion on the -lu'</span></font><span
style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:sans-serif">, that once
someone starts using in a long passage the -lu', then it would
be preferable if he didn't use -lu' and -vay' (or some other
solution) interchangeably.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<p>I'd just use <b>vay'</b> with the <b>-laH </b>and forget about
it.</p>
<p>Actually I'd probably use <b>vay'</b> for the whole thing,
provided I didn't need to repeat it. <b>vumtaHvIS vay' 'ej
Doy'qu'taHvIS, qeqnISchugh 'ach qaqlaHbe'chugh...</b></p>
<p>Again, I'd need to see this in its larger context. You'll
generally have to reword something that will end up with a <b>-laH</b>
and <b>-lu'</b> together anyway.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</body>
</html>
--------------0A7E041F51362E3EEC043D21--
--===============4578579410432733647==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--===============4578579410432733647==--
