[112199] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] -meH with -pu'/-ta'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Wed Mar 13 11:27:23 2019
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 11:19:49 -0400
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <3jvun9cutl09la37rfrhu62f.1552488079881@email.android.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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A verb with {-meH} essentially becomes timeless. It serves to give =
meaning to a noun or verb that might, itself, have some degree of =
perfective, but the dependent clause is explaining the purpose of the =
action or the purpose of the person, place, or thing that is being =
described by the dependent clause.
Think of a verb with {-meH} and the clause it is part of as being like =
an adjective or an adverb. It describes something about the noun or verb =
it modifies. If I have a green helmet, I wouldn=E2=80=99t call it a {mIV =
SuDta=E2=80=99} because, hey, I PAINTED that helmet green and so the =
color is INTENTIONAL, and I ACCOMPLISHED making that helmet GREEN, so =
it=E2=80=99s gotta be {mIV SuDta=E2=80=99}=E2=80=A6
It=E2=80=99s kinda like that. It=E2=80=99s {mIV SuD}. Deal with it. You =
could build a main clause that could explain the accomplishment of =
making the helmet green, but greenness has nothing to do with the =
perfective, when you are simply noting the greenness of an object.
A {ghojmeH taj} isn=E2=80=99t a {ghojlI=E2=80=99meH taj}, even though =
there may be an intentional mission for which one is learning to use the =
knife, and one is progressing toward that mission. Put that kind of =
nuanced meaning into the main clause, not the purpose clause.
charghwI=E2=80=99 vaghnerya=E2=80=99ngan
rInpa=E2=80=99 bomnIS be=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 pI=E2=80=99.
> On Mar 13, 2019, at 10:42 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> SuStel:
> > I wouldn't put perfective here unless I had =20
> > a very good reason I could articulate.
>=20
> What do you mean by that ?
>=20
> SuStel:
> > I'm not sure how 'an waste and 'anmoH =20
> > sacrifice are related.
>=20
> I think 'an means "be a waste", while 'anmoH means "to sacrifice".
>=20
> ~ changan qIj
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org <mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org>
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<http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">A verb with {-meH} essentially becomes timeless. It serves to =
give meaning to a noun or verb that might, itself, have some degree of =
perfective, but the dependent clause is explaining the purpose of the =
action or the purpose of the person, place, or thing that is being =
described by the dependent clause.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Think of a verb with {-meH} and the =
clause it is part of as being like an adjective or an adverb. It =
describes something about the noun or verb it modifies. If I have a =
green helmet, I wouldn=E2=80=99t call it a {mIV SuDta=E2=80=99} because, =
hey, I PAINTED that helmet green and so the color is INTENTIONAL, and I =
ACCOMPLISHED making that helmet GREEN, so it=E2=80=99s gotta be {mIV =
SuDta=E2=80=99}=E2=80=A6</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">It=E2=80=99s kinda like that. It=E2=80=99s {mIV SuD}. Deal =
with it. You could build a main clause that could explain the =
accomplishment of making the helmet green, but greenness has nothing to =
do with the perfective, when you are simply noting the greenness of an =
object.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A =
{ghojmeH taj} isn=E2=80=99t a {ghojlI=E2=80=99meH taj}, even though =
there may be an intentional mission for which one is learning to use the =
knife, and one is progressing toward that mission. Put that kind of =
nuanced meaning into the main clause, not the purpose clause.</div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;">charghwI=E2=80=99 vaghnerya=E2=80=99ngan<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">rInpa=E2=80=99 bomnIS be=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 =
pI=E2=80=99.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Mar 13, 2019, at 10:42 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
id=3D"d_1552488155282" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);" class=3D""><div style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">SuStel:</div><div =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">> I wouldn't put perfective here =
unless I had <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">> a very good reason I could =
articulate.</div><br class=3D""><div style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">What =
do you mean by that ?</div><br class=3D""><div style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" =
class=3D"">SuStel:</div><div style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">> I'm not sure =
how 'an waste and 'anmoH <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">> sacrifice are related.</div><br =
class=3D""><div style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">I think 'an means "be a =
waste", while 'anmoH means "to sacrifice".</div><br class=3D""><div =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px;" class=3D"">~ changan qIj</div><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"quoted_separate_body" style=3D"caret-color:=
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div id=3D"quoted_header" style=3D"clear: both;" =
class=3D""></div><br type=3D"attribution" class=3D""><div =
id=3D"quoted_body" =
class=3D""></div>_______________________________________________<br =
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class=3D"">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br class=3D""><a =
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class=3D"">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a></div=
></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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