[112163] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] naDev and 'el
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Mar 11 13:24:26 2019
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To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 13:24:23 -0400
In-Reply-To: <ed7fc8a4-58f3-eed8-e8bd-549eea913fd3@gmx.de>
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On 3/11/2019 1:18 PM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
> Am 11.03.2019 um 17:11 schrieb SuStel:
>> It's awkward in English to say /enter here;/
>
> In this entire discussion, this is what is my question:
> can you really {'el} the {naDev}?
>
> I think of {'el} as "going into an enclosed area". Even the sector
> does not have walls around it, but it has an invisible or imagined
> border. "here" does not have a set border, it's more like a spot,
> wherever you point your finger at.
>
> Perhaps that's the reason why it sounds awkward.
>
> Unless I have missed a relevant canon example.
*naDev* and /here/ are deitic, completely dependent on surrounding
context to have meaning. Whatever /here/ or *naDev* you're referring to
has the properties of that place. If /here/ or *naDev* is a box, then
it's got the properties of a box.
I don't know if *naDev vI'el* is awkward in Klingon, but if it is, it's
probably because of the usual redundancy of locative-sense verbs having
locative-marked objects. *naDev* is not marked locative, but it's always
locative anyway.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/2019 1:18 PM, Lieven L. Litaer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ed7fc8a4-58f3-eed8-e8bd-549eea913fd3@gmx.de">Am
11.03.2019 um 17:11 schrieb SuStel:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">It's awkward in
English to say /enter here;/ </blockquote>
<br>
In this entire discussion, this is what is my question:
<br>
can you really {'el} the {naDev}?
<br>
<br>
I think of {'el} as "going into an enclosed area". Even the sector
does not have walls around it, but it has an invisible or imagined
border. "here" does not have a set border, it's more like a spot,
wherever you point your finger at.
<br>
<br>
Perhaps that's the reason why it sounds awkward.
<br>
<br>
Unless I have missed a relevant canon example.
</blockquote>
<p><b>naDev</b> and <i>here</i> are deitic, completely dependent on
surrounding context to have meaning. Whatever <i>here</i> or <b>naDev</b>
you're referring to has the properties of that place. If <i>here</i>
or <b>naDev</b> is a box, then it's got the properties of a box.</p>
<p>I don't know if <b>naDev vI'el</b> is awkward in Klingon, but if
it is, it's probably because of the usual redundancy of
locative-sense verbs having locative-marked objects. <b>naDev</b>
is not marked locative, but it's always locative anyway.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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