[112056] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] chevchuqmoH
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID)
Tue Mar 5 10:18:29 2019
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In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKcPbbJp_FfetzOTR=-KU3mvRZTO1ho70hB7_j6ZMHUXw@mail.gmail.com>
From: "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 16:18:14 +0100
To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 at 15:35, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> If we say:
>
> {tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' chevchuqmoH qeylIS}
>
I assume you're missing a {je}, as otherwise I read this as "the Klingons'
Romulans" (whatever that means).
> Then does this mean that "kahless separates the klingons from the
> romulans" ?
>
> Or does it mean that:
>
> "There is a group of klingons and romulans, kahless takes this group,
> and causes each member (regardless whether he's a klingon or romulan),
> to separate the other member (regardless whether he's a klingon or
> romulan)" ?
>
> And don't axe me, what "causes each member to separate the other"
> actually means, because I don't know.
>
What you're asking really has nothing to do with {-chuqmoH}, but with
{chev}. The only hint we have of how {chev} works is {'uSDaj chop, chev!}
It seems that the object of {chev} is the thing being separated ({'uS}),
and the subject is doing the separating (the {targh} or whatever is being
commanded). That is, {'uS chev targh} would mean "the targ separates the
leg (from something unspecified)".
{chevchuq tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' je} would mean "the Klingons and
Romulans separate each other (from something unspecified)"
{tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' je chuvchuqmoH qeylIS} would mean "Kahless
causes the Klingons and Romulans to separate each other (from something
unspecified)"
The problem here is that we don't know how to specify the thing which the
leg is (or the Klingons and Romulans are) being separated from. My guess
would be it's marked with {-vo'}.
I think the grammar is clear when illustrated with a verb other than {chev}:
{tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' je muvchuqmoH qeylIS} "Kahless causes the
Klingons and Romulans to join each other"
{tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' je chopchuqmoH qeylIS} "Kahless causes the
Klingons and Romulans to bite each other"
--
De'vID
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 at 15:35, mayqel q=
unen'oS <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">If we=
say:<br>
<br>
{tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' chevchuqmoH qeylIS}<br></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>I assume you're missing a {je}, as otherwise I read th=
is as "the Klingons' Romulans" (whatever that means).</div><d=
iv>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Then does this mean that "kahless separates the klingons from the romu=
lans" ?<br>
<br>
Or does it mean that:<br>
<br>
"There is a group of klingons and romulans, kahless takes this group,<=
br>
and causes each member (regardless whether he's a klingon or romulan),<=
br>
to separate the other member (regardless whether he's a klingon or<br>
romulan)" ?<br>
<br>
And don't axe me, what "causes each member to separate the other&q=
uot;<br>
actually means, because I don't know.<br></blockquote></div><div><br></=
div><div>What you're asking really has nothing to do with {-chuqmoH}, b=
ut with {chev}. The only hint we have of how {chev} works is {'uSDaj ch=
op, chev!} It seems that the object of {chev} is the thing being separated =
({'uS}), and the subject is doing the separating (the {targh} or whatev=
er is being commanded). That is, {'uS chev targh} would mean "the =
targ separates the leg (from something unspecified)".</div><div><br></=
div><div>{chevchuq tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' je} would mean "=
the Klingons and Romulans separate each other (from something unspecified)&=
quot;</div><div>{tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' je chuvchuqmoH qeylIS} =
would mean "Kahless causes the Klingons and Romulans to separate each =
other (from something unspecified)"</div><div><br></div><div>The probl=
em here is that we don't know how to specify the thing which the leg is=
(or the Klingons and Romulans are) being separated from. My guess would be=
it's marked with {-vo'}.</div><div><br></div><div>I think the gram=
mar is clear when illustrated with a verb other than {chev}:</div><div><div=
>{tlhInganpu' romuluSnganpu' je muvchuqmoH qeylIS} "Kahless ca=
uses the Klingons and Romulans to join each other"</div></div><div>{tl=
hInganpu' romuluSnganpu' je chopchuqmoH qeylIS} "Kahless cause=
s the Klingons and Romulans to bite each other"<br class=3D"gmail-Appl=
e-interchange-newline"></div><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_signature">De'vID</div></div>
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