[111898] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Out of curiosity..
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Christa Hansberry)
Fri Feb 22 20:35:24 2019
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <2642EDFD-5494-46F9-9872-F9C9589A5537@dadap.net>
From: Christa Hansberry <chransberry@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 18:35:19 -0700
To: KLI mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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Going back to the Esperanto example, some find the Xs ugly and prefer the
H-convention. So like "Mi shatas skribi chi tiel char iksoj malplachas al
mi".
But then there's the same issue Daniel mentioned, of knowing when gh is =C4=
=9D
and when it's just a g followed by an h. Someone proficient in the language
knows that "flughaveno" (airport) is not "flu=C4=9Daveno" because that's no=
t a
word. But for readability it's good to distinguish the two, and for that a
common solution is to use a hyphen: "flug-haveno".
So, I suppose in the hypothetical situation that a system like the ones
described here was adopted, one could say nen-ghep, veng-hom, etc. Not
especially beautiful, but I've seen worse :-P.
As for uppercase qaghwI', well, if I hit shift while I type it, I get " -
viol=C3=A1! XD
-Qhista'
On Feb 21, 2019 2:47 PM, "Daniel Dadap" <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 21, 2019, at 12:13, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > how would we distinguish between the q and Q ?
>
> The one other place where case matters is in distinguishing between ng+H
> and n+gh. I don=E2=80=99t think there are any word pairs where the differ=
ence would
> cause confusion, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean there never will be.
>
> For example, nobody is going to think that NENGHEP is nengHep, or that
> VENGHOM is venghom if they know the words nenghep and vengHom.
>
> Using qh for Q could be problematic in a similar way for distinguishing
> q+H from Q. For example, is baqha' baqHa' or baQa'?
>
> An encoding like xifan hol or a system with diacritics would avoid these
> issues.
>
> FWIW I found SuStel=E2=80=99s example texts perfectly readable, but it do=
es seem
> that old habits are hard to break (I saw a =E2=80=9CDaH=E2=80=9D in there=
rather than
> =E2=80=9CDah=E2=80=9D, for example.) Also, I wonder, since qaghwI' can=E2=
=80=99t exactly be capital
> or lowercase, if the vowel following a qaghwI' in a word that begins with
> qaghwI' should be the one to be capitalized instead. For example:
>
> Qu' dataghdi' 'Aktu' Mellota' je tikaw.
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
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<p dir=3D"ltr">Going back to the Esperanto example, some find the Xs ugly a=
nd prefer the H-convention. So like "Mi shatas skribi chi tiel char ik=
soj malplachas al mi".</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">But then there's the same issue Daniel mentioned, of kno=
wing when gh is =C4=9D and when it's just a g followed by an h. Someone=
proficient in the language knows that "flughaveno" (airport) is =
not "flu=C4=9Daveno" because that's not a word. But for reada=
bility it's good to distinguish the two, and for that a common solution=
is to use a hyphen: "flug-haveno".</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">So, I suppose in the hypothetical situation that a system li=
ke the ones described here was adopted, one could say nen-ghep, veng-hom, e=
tc. Not especially beautiful, but I've seen worse :-P.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">As for uppercase qaghwI', well, if I hit shift while I t=
ype it, I get " - viol=C3=A1! XD</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">-Qhista'</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Feb 21, 2019 2:47 PM, "Daniel Dadap"=
; <<a href=3D"mailto:daniel@dadap.net">daniel@dadap.net</a>> wrote:<b=
r type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
> On Feb 21, 2019, at 12:13, mayqel qunen'oS <<a href=3D"mailto:m=
ihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> how would we distinguish between the q and Q ?<br>
<br>
The one other place where case matters is in distinguishing between ng+H an=
d n+gh. I don=E2=80=99t think there are any word pairs where the difference=
would cause confusion, but that doesn=E2=80=99t mean there never will be.<=
br>
<br>
For example, nobody is going to think that NENGHEP is nengHep, or that VENG=
HOM is venghom if they know the words nenghep and vengHom.<br>
<br>
Using qh for Q could be problematic in a similar way for distinguishing q+H=
from Q. For example, is baqha' baqHa' or baQa'?<br>
<br>
An encoding like xifan hol or a system with diacritics would avoid these is=
sues.<br>
<br>
FWIW I found SuStel=E2=80=99s example texts perfectly readable, but it does=
seem that old habits are hard to break (I saw a =E2=80=9CDaH=E2=80=9D in t=
here rather than =E2=80=9CDah=E2=80=9D, for example.) Also, I wonder, since=
qaghwI' can=E2=80=99t exactly be capital or lowercase, if the vowel fo=
llowing a qaghwI' in a word that begins with qaghwI' should be the =
one to be capitalized instead. For example:<br>
<br>
Qu' dataghdi' 'Aktu' Mellota' je tikaw.<br>
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><br>
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n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
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