[111695] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] using {-Daq} metaphorically
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Oct 24 04:20:48 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 09:33:19 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2c+5RqH5qLCjG32XugmA8HFYiq-HLmjMz7WHnEa1Nyh_oA@mail.gmail.com>
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On 10/23/2017 7:27 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> Perhaps the {'Internet} example wasn't appropriate, because the
> {'Internet} more or less tends to be considered as a "place", so let
> me write another example.
>
> Suppose I want to express "molor sits on his pride". I can't write
> {le'yo'DajDaq ba' molor} because {le'yo'} can't take the {-Daq}.
>
> But if I write:
>
> {le'yo' quS'a'Daq ba' molor}
> molor sits on his throne of pride
>
> Would it be correct ?
If /Molor sits on his pride/ is somehow established as a metaphor before
that sentence appears, then you /can/ say *le'yo'DajDaq ba' molor.* But
that's down to your ability to set me up to understand a metaphor, not
whether the language allows non-literal entities to be locatives.
Anything you can *ba'* on is a locative. If I can *ba'* on *le'yo'* in
some unusual expression, then that's a locative. When we tell people to
use *-Daq* only on spatial relationships, we're warning them not to use
it for other relationships expressed by English /o//n, at, /or /in,/ not
that metaphors can't express spatial relationships. If a beginner wants
to translate /I ate lunch at noon,/ we might have to warn them that
*DungluQDaq* is the wrong concept.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/23/2017 7:27 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2c+5RqH5qLCjG32XugmA8HFYiq-HLmjMz7WHnEa1Nyh_oA@mail.gmail.com">Perhaps
the {'Internet} example wasn't appropriate, because the
{'Internet} more or less tends to be considered as a "place", so
let me write another example.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Suppose I want to express "molor sits on his
pride". I can't write {le'yo'DajDaq ba' molor} because {le'yo'}
can't take the {-Daq}.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But if I write:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">{le'yo' quS'a'Daq ba' molor}</div>
<div dir="auto">molor sits on his throne of pride</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Would it be correct ?</div>
</blockquote>
<p>If <i>Molor sits on his pride</i> is somehow established as a
metaphor before that sentence appears, then you <i>can</i> say <b>le'yo'DajDaq
ba' molor.</b> But that's down to your ability to set me up to
understand a metaphor, not whether the language allows non-literal
entities to be locatives.</p>
<p>Anything you can <b>ba'</b> on is a locative. If I can <b>ba'</b>
on <b>le'yo'</b> in some unusual expression, then that's a
locative. When we tell people to use <b>-Daq</b> only on spatial
relationships, we're warning them not to use it for other
relationships expressed by English <i>o</i><i>n, at, </i>or <i>in,</i>
not that metaphors can't express spatial relationships. If a
beginner wants to translate <i>I ate lunch at noon,</i> we might
have to warn them that <b>DungluQDaq</b> is the wrong concept.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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