[111616] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] law' puS construction with law'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Sat Oct 14 07:57:56 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:10:57 -0400
In-Reply-To: <f26aeb52-b749-e528-f260-334b4737bbad@gmx.de>
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On 10/11/2017 11:56 AM, Lieven wrote:
> Am 11.10.2017 um 17:50 schrieb SuStel:
>> but here we're not expected to think of this as /many (different)
>> electricities./ I don't think *Do law'* would automatically mean
>> /many (different) velocities/ just by that logical alone.
>
> I don't have canon examples at hand, but I'm sure that {law'} is not
> only "many" but also "much" (bIQ law' - "a lot of water", not "many
> waters"). So with noncountable things like {'ul law'} I don't read it
> as "many electricities", but "much electricity".
I looked a bit for *law'* on uncountable nouns, but *'ul* was the only
one I found.
I don't see how you distinguish between *'ul* being uncountable and *Do*
being countable. Surely you can measure electrical charge as well as you
can measure velocity, and you can have different measurements of
electrical charge as you can have different measurements of velocity.
Grammatically, I see absolutely no difference between these two words.
>> Now that we have *vItlh,* that's obviously the better choice for
>> things like this. But you can't completely rule out using *law'.*
>
> I think one can use this to distinguish between "a lot of speed, very
> fast {Do law'} and "a high amount of speed measured in numbers" {Do
> vItlh}.
I don't see the difference here, either. Using *vItlh* doesn't relate
your sentence to numbers; you're just saying, /that's a lot./ Which is
what *law'* is saying with *'ul law'.*
I think the difference, which I just suggested in another message, is
that *vItlh* is more general than *law'**. law' *is only about quantity,
while *vItlh* is about quantity or size or intensity or whatever it is
by which you measure a thing. If you measure a big quantity, either
*law' *or *vItlh* will do, though *vItlh *assumes the listener knows
you're talking about quantity; if you measure a big size, either *tIn
*or *vItlh* will do, though *vItlh *assumes the listener knows you're
talking about size; if you measure a big strength, either *HoS* or
*vItlh* will do, though *vItlh *assumes the listener knows you're
talking about strength; and so on.
/The energy field is strong.
/*HoS HoSchem
vItlh HoSchem*
(Both say exactly the same thing. But you wouldn't say *law'
HoSchem* for that meaning, and you wouldn't interpret *vItlh
HoSchem* as /there are many energy fields, /because energy fields
are usually measured by their strengths/./)
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/11/2017 11:56 AM, Lieven wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f26aeb52-b749-e528-f260-334b4737bbad@gmx.de">Am
11.10.2017 um 17:50 schrieb SuStel:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">but here we're not
expected to think of this as /many (different) electricities./ I
don't think *Do law'* would automatically mean /many (different)
velocities/ just by that logical alone.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I don't have canon examples at hand, but I'm sure that {law'} is
not only "many" but also "much" (bIQ law' - "a lot of water", not
"many waters"). So with noncountable things like {'ul law'} I
don't read it as "many electricities", but "much electricity".
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I looked a bit for <b>law'</b> on uncountable nouns, but <b>'ul</b>
was the only one I found.</p>
<p>I don't see how you distinguish between <b>'ul</b> being
uncountable and <b>Do</b> being countable. Surely you can measure
electrical charge as well as you can measure velocity, and you can
have different measurements of electrical charge as you can have
different measurements of velocity. Grammatically, I see
absolutely no difference between these two words.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f26aeb52-b749-e528-f260-334b4737bbad@gmx.de">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">Now that we have
*vItlh,* that's obviously the better choice for things like
this. But you can't completely rule out using *law'.*
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think one can use this to distinguish between "a lot of speed,
very fast {Do law'} and "a high amount of speed measured in
numbers" {Do vItlh}.
</blockquote>
<p>I don't see the difference here, either. Using <b>vItlh</b>
doesn't relate your sentence to numbers; you're just saying, <i>that's
a lot.</i> Which is what <b>law'</b> is saying with <b>'ul
law'.</b></p>
<p>I think the difference, which I just suggested in another
message, is that <b>vItlh</b> is more general than <b>law'</b><b>.
law' </b>is only about quantity, while <b>vItlh</b> is about
quantity or size or intensity or whatever it is by which you
measure a thing. If you measure a big quantity, either <b>law' </b>or
<b>vItlh</b> will do, though <b>vItlh </b>assumes the listener
knows you're talking about quantity; if you measure a big size,
either <b>tIn </b>or <b>vItlh</b> will do, though <b>vItlh </b>assumes
the listener knows you're talking about size; if you measure a big
strength, either <b>HoS</b> or <b>vItlh</b> will do, though <b>vItlh
</b>assumes the listener knows you're talking about strength; and
so on.</p>
<blockquote>
<p><i>The energy field is strong.<br>
</i><b>HoS HoSchem<br>
vItlh HoSchem</b><br>
(Both say exactly the same thing. But you wouldn't say <b>law'
HoSchem</b> for that meaning, and you wouldn't interpret <b>vItlh
HoSchem</b> as <i>there are many energy fields, </i>because
energy fields are usually measured by their strengths<i>.</i>)<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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