[111572] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] One more day
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Fri Oct 13 08:01:11 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <d2515ff8-eed0-bec8-6ff8-9ef862566601@trimboli.name>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:33:02 +0300
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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SuStel:
> If someone were to write *Duj Do'a' Do DoHom vIjuv* for *I *
*> measure the ship's deceleration*
*I can'understand this; all I read is "I measure the ship's great speed,
speed, lesser speed"*
*mayqel q*
On Oct 10, 2017 8:09 PM, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 10/10/2017 12:51 PM, nIqolay Q wrote:
>
> I don't see these as a spectrum, and these suffixes don't express what I
>> thought of the nouns at the time; they tell what I think of them when I say
>> the sentence.
>>
> It's interesting that you don't see these suffixes as a spectrum. I
> thought it was a good example of a spectrum of something like "increasing
> belief on my part that this thing can or should be described by this noun",
> from *-qoq* ("obviously not such a thing") to *-na'* ("definitely such a
> thing"). That's a good point about how they apply at the time of speaking,
> though. (At first I was going to argue that in the right context they could
> be taken to mean "what I thought of them at the time", like if they were
> contrasted with each other in some kind of temporal sequence, but I think
> that's mostly just because I really liked that example and want to salvage
> it somehow.)
>
> Noun qualification suffixes applying to what a participant in the sentence
> is not a complete impossibility, though I don't like it. We've seen hints
> of similar in the verb qualification suffixes. But we haven't actually seen
> anything like this in nouns so far as I know, so no point trying to find a
> way to make it so.
>
> You might construct a similar argument based on aspect suffixes and
> *-ghach:* *SuvchoHghach SuvtaHghach Suvpu'ghach* for something like *fight
> from start to finish.* There's an unmistakable sequence here, but it
> doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. And with this one there's actually
> little point to nominalizing it; just say *SuvchoH SuvtaH Suvpu'.*
> Interpret it with full stops after each word if you must.
>
> --
> SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
>
>
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>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"=
>SuStel:</span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font=
-size:13.696px">> If someone were to write=C2=A0</span><b style=3D"font-=
family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">Duj Do'a' Do DoHom vIjuv</b><=
span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">=C2=A0for=C2=A0</s=
pan><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">I=C2=A0</i></div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">&=
gt; measure the ship's deceleration</i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=
=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">I can'unders=
tand this; all I read is "I measure the ship's great speed, speed,=
lesser speed"</i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-family:sans=
-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sa=
ns-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px"><i>mayqel q</i></span></font><=
/div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct=
10, 2017 8:09 PM, "SuStel" <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli=
.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<div class=3D"m_-5777237907094495585moz-cite-prefix">On 10/10/2017 12:5=
1 PM, nIqolay Q
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<p>I don't see these as a spectrum, and these suffixes don=
9;t
express what I thought of the nouns at the time; they tell
what I think of them when I say the sentence. <br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">It's interesting that y=
ou
don't see these suffixes as a spectrum. I thought it was a good
example of a spectrum of something like "increasing belief on =
my
part that this thing can or should be described by this noun",
from <b>-qoq</b> ("obviously not such a thing") to <b>-na=
'</b>
("definitely such a thing"). That's a good point abou=
t how they
apply at the time of speaking, though. (At first I was going to
argue that in the right context they could be taken to mean
"what I thought of them at the time", like if they were
contrasted with each other in some kind of temporal sequence,
but I think that's mostly just because I really liked that
example and want to salvage it somehow.)</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Noun qualification suffixes applying to what a participant in the
sentence is not a complete impossibility, though I don't like it.
We've seen hints of similar in the verb qualification suffixes.
But we haven't actually seen anything like this in nouns so far a=
s
I know, so no point trying to find a way to make it so.</p>
<p>You might construct a similar argument based on aspect suffixes
and <b>-ghach:</b> <b>SuvchoHghach SuvtaHghach Suvpu'ghach</b>
for something like <i>fight from start to finish.</i> There's an
unmistakable sequence here, but it doesn't exactly roll off the
tongue. And with this one there's actually little point to
nominalizing it; just say <b>SuvchoH SuvtaH Suvpu'.</b> Interpret
it with full stops after each word if you must.<br>
</p>
<pre class=3D"m_-5777237907094495585moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
SuStel
<a class=3D"m_-5777237907094495585moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://tri=
mboli.name" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
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