[111551] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] One more day
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Wed Oct 11 07:21:10 2017
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In-Reply-To: <CABDLMbWaKyNukgkF14oBQmgCHhDX7J+nvqxfeBxRNUrDn8Z+8Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:51:13 +0300
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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SuStel:
> Just picture it in your head.
hmm.. I think I understand. Like someone seeing a ship decelerate, and each
of his words refers to a specific "screenshot", of the deceleration event.
maj.
mayqel q
On Oct 10, 2017 9:44 PM, "Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller" <esperantist@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>
> 2017-10-10 20:33 GMT+02:00 mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>:
>
>> SuStel:
>> > If someone were to write *Duj Do'a' Do DoHom vIjuv* for *I *
>> *> measure the ship's deceleration*
>>
>> *I can'understand this; all I read is "I measure the ship's great speed,
>> speed, lesser speed"*
>>
>> *mayqel q*
>>
>>
> This is also the only thing I am grasping there. It would not make sense
> to me. It sounds either like a mere list, or like a NNN construction
> meaning "I measure the lesser speed of the speed of the greater speed of
> the ship." Neither of which makes sense. Maybe that ship has only 3 speed
> modes, slow pace, middle pace, and full speed, and I could measure what
> they are (e.g. half impulse, full impulse, and warp 1).
>
> Interpreting something like "deceleration" into seems like a big stretch.
> Like linguistic fan fiction.
>
> - Andr=C3=A9
>
>
>
>> On Oct 10, 2017 8:09 PM, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/10/2017 12:51 PM, nIqolay Q wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't see these as a spectrum, and these suffixes don't express what =
I
>>>> thought of the nouns at the time; they tell what I think of them when =
I say
>>>> the sentence.
>>>>
>>> It's interesting that you don't see these suffixes as a spectrum. I
>>> thought it was a good example of a spectrum of something like "increasi=
ng
>>> belief on my part that this thing can or should be described by this no=
un",
>>> from *-qoq* ("obviously not such a thing") to *-na'* ("definitely such
>>> a thing"). That's a good point about how they apply at the time of
>>> speaking, though. (At first I was going to argue that in the right cont=
ext
>>> they could be taken to mean "what I thought of them at the time", like =
if
>>> they were contrasted with each other in some kind of temporal sequence,=
but
>>> I think that's mostly just because I really liked that example and want=
to
>>> salvage it somehow.)
>>>
>>> Noun qualification suffixes applying to what a participant in the
>>> sentence is not a complete impossibility, though I don't like it. We've
>>> seen hints of similar in the verb qualification suffixes. But we haven'=
t
>>> actually seen anything like this in nouns so far as I know, so no point
>>> trying to find a way to make it so.
>>>
>>> You might construct a similar argument based on aspect suffixes and
>>> *-ghach:* *SuvchoHghach SuvtaHghach Suvpu'ghach* for something like *fi=
ght
>>> from start to finish.* There's an unmistakable sequence here, but it
>>> doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. And with this one there's actually
>>> little point to nominalizing it; just say *SuvchoH SuvtaH Suvpu'.*
>>> Interpret it with full stops after each word if you must.
>>>
>>> --
>>> SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
>>> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
>>> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
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>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"=
>SuStel:</span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font=
-size:13.696px">> Just picture it in your head.</span></div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.=
696px">hmm.. I think I understand. Like someone seeing a ship decelerate, a=
nd each of his words refers to a specific "screenshot", of the de=
celeration event. maj.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">mayqel q</span></div>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct 10, =
2017 9:44 PM, "Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller" <<a href=3D"mailto:espe=
rantist@gmail.com">esperantist@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribut=
ion"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-10-10 20:33 GMT+02:00 mayqel qunen=
oS <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">S=
uStel:</span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-s=
ize:13.696px">> If someone were to write=C2=A0</span><b style=3D"font-fa=
mily:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">Duj Do'a' Do DoHom vIjuv</b><sp=
an style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">=C2=A0for=C2=A0</spa=
n><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">I=C2=A0</i></div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">>=
; measure the ship's deceleration</i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=
=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">I can'unders=
tand this; all I read is "I measure the ship's great speed, speed,=
lesser speed"</i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-family:sans=
-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sa=
ns-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px"><i>mayqel q</i></span></font><=
/div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div>This is also the only thing I am grasping there. It would not make se=
nse to me. It sounds either like a mere list, or like a NNN construction me=
aning "I measure the lesser speed of the speed of the greater speed of=
the ship." Neither of which makes sense. Maybe that ship has only 3 s=
peed modes, slow pace, middle pace, and full speed, and I could measure wha=
t they are (e.g. half impulse, full impulse, and warp 1).<br></div><div><br=
></div><div>Interpreting something like "deceleration" into seems=
like a big stretch. Like linguistic fan fiction.</div><div><br></div><div>=
- Andr=C3=A9<br></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct 10, =
2017 8:09 PM, "SuStel" <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name=
" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribut=
ion"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<div class=3D"m_-2007968223775708459m_-7885599997635718097m_-5777237907=
094495585moz-cite-prefix">On 10/10/2017 12:51 PM, nIqolay Q
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<p>I don't see these as a spectrum, and these suffixes don=
9;t
express what I thought of the nouns at the time; they tell
what I think of them when I say the sentence. <br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">It's interesting that y=
ou
don't see these suffixes as a spectrum. I thought it was a good
example of a spectrum of something like "increasing belief on =
my
part that this thing can or should be described by this noun",
from <b>-qoq</b> ("obviously not such a thing") to <b>-na=
'</b>
("definitely such a thing"). That's a good point abou=
t how they
apply at the time of speaking, though. (At first I was going to
argue that in the right context they could be taken to mean
"what I thought of them at the time", like if they were
contrasted with each other in some kind of temporal sequence,
but I think that's mostly just because I really liked that
example and want to salvage it somehow.)</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Noun qualification suffixes applying to what a participant in the
sentence is not a complete impossibility, though I don't like it.
We've seen hints of similar in the verb qualification suffixes.
But we haven't actually seen anything like this in nouns so far a=
s
I know, so no point trying to find a way to make it so.</p>
<p>You might construct a similar argument based on aspect suffixes
and <b>-ghach:</b> <b>SuvchoHghach SuvtaHghach Suvpu'ghach</b>
for something like <i>fight from start to finish.</i> There's an
unmistakable sequence here, but it doesn't exactly roll off the
tongue. And with this one there's actually little point to
nominalizing it; just say <b>SuvchoH SuvtaH Suvpu'.</b> Interpret
it with full stops after each word if you must.<span class=3D"m_-2007=
968223775708459HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
</font></span></p><span class=3D"m_-2007968223775708459HOEnZb"><font co=
lor=3D"#888888">
<pre class=3D"m_-2007968223775708459m_-7885599997635718097m_-5777237907=
094495585moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
SuStel
<a class=3D"m_-2007968223775708459m_-7885599997635718097m_-5777237907094495=
585moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</font></span></div><span class=3D"m_-2007968223775708459HOEnZb"><font co=
lor=3D"#888888">
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