[111523] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Saying I'm not there
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Oct 10 07:01:10 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 07:31:29 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAG84SOsxorK_mjCuA5O0_Z8AoHHgF4Zmjx3YSOdNSYr4+5Xzcg@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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Another example of a fixed feature not using a suffix is on the Bird of Pre=
y poster: tlhIngan juHqo'Daq tlhIng yoSDaq 'oH toQDuj chenmoHlu'meH Daq wa'=
DIch'e'.
SkyBox 99 had this, referring to Deep Space Nine: qIb HeHDaq, 'u' SepmeyDaq=
Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH He ghoSlu'bogh retlhDaq 'oHtaH. Another possibly =
bad data point, since Deep Space Nine is technically capable of limited mov=
ement, even though it really is a fixed feature.
But SkyBox S27 had an unambiguous example: pa' 'oHtaH vaS'a''e'.
Basically, it=E2=80=99s a mess.
--=20
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
From: nIqolay Q
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 12:50 AM
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Cc: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Saying I'm not there
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 11:41 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 10/8/2017 11:36 PM, SuStel wrote:
On 10/8/2017 11:29 PM, Alan Anderson wrote:
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 7:05 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
I am of the opinion, informed by no canon whatsoever, that the rule is that=
pronouns of being in a place require an aspect, but not necessarily a type=
7 suffix.=C2=A0
Unfortunately, that opinion is contradicted by canon. Again, from the UKE a=
ppendix:
"Where is a good restaurant?" {nuqDaq 'oH Qe' QaQ'e'}=20
"Where is the bathroom?" {nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'}
Any examples where we're not asking questions?
Here's a sort-of example: ghe''orDaq luSpet 'oH DaqlIj'e'. But it's not of =
the same form as the others, so it's not a good data point.
One thing that is in common between those examples is that the thing in que=
stion doesn't move, it's a fixed location. People move around, so you might=
want to emphasize if someone is in a location for a while (i.e., using the=
-taH), whereas the restaurant or bathroom probably isn't going anywhere. A=
re there more examples where the thing that is in a place is a fixed featur=
e rather than a person or ship or the like?
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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72"><div cla=
ss=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Another example of a fixed feature n=
ot using a suffix is on the Bird of Prey poster: <b>tlhIngan juHqo'Daq tlhI=
ng yoSDaq 'oH toQDuj chenmoHlu'meH Daq wa'DIch'e'</b>.</p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>SkyBox 99 had this, referring=
to Deep Space Nine: <b>qIb HeHDaq, 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH =
He ghoSlu'bogh retlhDaq 'oHtaH</b>. Another possibly bad data point, since =
Deep Space Nine is technically capable of limited movement, even though it =
really is a fixed feature.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>But SkyBox S27 had an unambiguous example: <b>pa' 'oHtaH =
vaS'a''e'.<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><o:p> </o:p></b><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Basically, it=E2=80=99s a mess.</p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- <br>SuStel<br>http=
://trimboli.name</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style=3D=
'mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;pad=
ding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padding:0=
in'><b>From: </b><a href=3D"mailto:niqolay0@gmail.com">nIqolay Q</a><br><b>=
Sent: </b>Monday, October 9, 2017 12:50 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:=
tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href=3D"mai=
lto:tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org">tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org</a><br><b>Subjec=
t: </b>Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Saying I'm not there</p></div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Sun, Oct 8, 2=
017 at 11:41 PM, SuStel <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=
=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</p><blockquote style=3D'bor=
der:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-l=
eft:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 10/8/2017 11:=
36 PM, SuStel wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.=
0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 10/8/2017 11:29 PM, A=
lan Anderson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0=
pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;transition: transform 1s ease 0s'><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al>On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 7:05 PM, SuStel <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trim=
boli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</p><blockq=
uote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0=
in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
>I am of the opinion, informed by no canon whatsoever, that the rule is tha=
t pronouns of being in a place require an aspect, but not necessarily a typ=
e 7 suffix. </p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:=
p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Unfortunately, that opinion is=
contradicted by canon. Again, from the UKE appendix:<br><br>"Where is=
a good restaurant?" {nuqDaq 'oH Qe' QaQ'e'} <br><br>"Where is th=
e bathroom?" {nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'}</p></blockquote><p>Any examples w=
here we're not asking questions?</p></blockquote><p>Here's a sort-of exampl=
e: <b>ghe''orDaq luSpet 'oH DaqlIj'e'.</b> But it's not of the same form as=
the others, so it's not a good data point.</p></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>One thing that is in common between those exa=
mples is that the thing in question doesn't move, it's a fixed location. Pe=
ople move around, so you might want to emphasize if someone is in a locatio=
n for a while (i.e., using the<b> -taH</b>), whereas the restaurant or bath=
room probably isn't going anywhere. Are there more examples where the thing=
that is in a place is a fixed feature rather than a person or ship or the =
like?</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>=
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