[110767] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] The {-chuqmoH}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Aug 29 13:36:07 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 12:15:37 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2c+b+WA0cLKEudYJpoUV-2QYoiyE-Br4xM9nw5qeagLLLw@mail.gmail.com>
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On 8/29/2017 11:52 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> jIH:
>> {HIvchuqmoH verengan Duj}
>> the ferengi ships caused each other to attack each other
> ghunchu'wI':
I wrote this.
>> That last one is the Ferengi ships cause each other to attack or the Ferengi ship
>> causes someone unspecified to attack each other. In neither case does the subject attack itself.
> I'm afraid can't understand this; why can't the subject (which in our
> example is two ships) attack itself ?
>
> SuStel:
>> [muv]chuq[moH] they (plural, reflexive subject) cause each other to join.
> And if the subject can't act on itself, then the above actually means
> "they (plural, reflexive subject) cause each other to join a third
> party (and not each other)" ?
Okay, basic grammar lesson.
When you use *-chuq,* it means either the subject is plural and is doing
something to each other, or the "doer" of the action is plural and is
doing something to each other.
If the "doer" is not the subject, it's because you're using *-moH* to
say that the subject is causing the doers to do the action to each
other. The doers, not the causer, act upon each other.
If *HIvchuq verengan Duj,* then the Ferengi ships attack each other.
They are both subject and doer.
If *HIvchuqmoH verengan Duj,* then the Ferengi ships are /causing/
something to happen. Either they are /causing each other to attack/
(there's no implication that they're attacking each other, just that
they're attacking /someone/), or they're /causing someone unspecified or
general /(there's no implication that it's the Ferengi ships) /to attack
each other/.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/2017 11:52 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2c+b+WA0cLKEudYJpoUV-2QYoiyE-Br4xM9nw5qeagLLLw@mail.gmail.com">
<pre wrap="">jIH:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre wrap="">{HIvchuqmoH verengan Duj}
the ferengi ships caused each other to attack each other
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">ghunchu'wI':</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I wrote this.</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2c+b+WA0cLKEudYJpoUV-2QYoiyE-Br4xM9nw5qeagLLLw@mail.gmail.com">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre wrap="">That last one is the Ferengi ships cause each other to attack or the Ferengi ship
causes someone unspecified to attack each other. In neither case does the subject attack itself.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I'm afraid can't understand this; why can't the subject (which in our
example is two ships) attack itself ?
SuStel:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre wrap="">[muv]chuq[moH] they (plural, reflexive subject) cause each other to join.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">And if the subject can't act on itself, then the above actually means
"they (plural, reflexive subject) cause each other to join a third
party (and not each other)" ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Okay, basic grammar lesson.</p>
<p>When you use <b>-chuq,</b> it means either the subject is plural
and is doing something to each other, or the "doer" of the action
is plural and is doing something to each other.</p>
<p>If the "doer" is not the subject, it's because you're using <b>-moH</b>
to say that the subject is causing the doers to do the action to
each other. The doers, not the causer, act upon each other.<br>
</p>
<p>If <b>HIvchuq verengan Duj,</b> then the Ferengi ships attack
each other. They are both subject and doer.</p>
<p>If <b>HIvchuqmoH verengan Duj,</b> then the Ferengi ships are <i>causing</i>
something to happen. Either they are <i>causing each other to
attack</i> (there's no implication that they're attacking each
other, just that they're attacking <i>someone</i>), or they're <i>causing
someone unspecified or general </i>(there's no implication that
it's the Ferengi ships) <i>to attack each other</i>.</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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