[110761] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] The {-chuqmoH}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Aug 29 11:36:07 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 11:16:47 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cLKMDVg9HZJRLfdPx_Yn4aoiss3yVz84HWi8qa4aHX2EQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On 8/29/2017 10:45 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> However, lets return to the {-chuqmoH}. We have the canon sentence
> {Qo'noS tuqmey muvchuqmoH qeylIS}.
>
> As you wrote: "There are two ways to interpret muvchuqmoH:
> [muvchuq]moH he (singular subject) causes them (plural object) to join
> each other and [muv]chuq[moH] they (plural, reflexive subject) cause
> each other to join."
>
> So, if I understand correctly what has been explained so far, then the
> following two sentences are correct:
>
> {verengan Duj vIHIvchuqmoH jIH}
> I caused the ferengi ships to attack each other
>
> {HIvchuqmoH verengan Duj}
> the ferengi ships caused each other to attack each other
That last one is /the Ferengi ships cause each other to attack/ or /the
Ferengi ship causes someone unspecified to attack each other./ In
neither case does the subject attack itself.
> But if I wrote:
>
> {verengan Duj luHIvchuqmoH cha' Duj nov}
> two alien ships caused each other to attack the ferengi ship
>
> {verengan Duj DIHIvchuqmoH maH tlhIH je}
> We and you caused each other to attack the ferengi ships
>
> Then both of these sentences are wrong.
>
> Is my understanding correct ?
Yes. Unless Klingon allows reflexive verbs to also take objects, which
there is, I think, slight evidence of. For example, the thinking goes
that you can't say *tuqlIj qun wIja'chuq.*
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/2017 10:45 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLKMDVg9HZJRLfdPx_Yn4aoiss3yVz84HWi8qa4aHX2EQ@mail.gmail.com">
<pre wrap="">However, lets return to the {-chuqmoH}. We have the canon sentence
{Qo'noS tuqmey muvchuqmoH qeylIS}.
As you wrote: "There are two ways to interpret muvchuqmoH:
[muvchuq]moH he (singular subject) causes them (plural object) to join
each other and [muv]chuq[moH] they (plural, reflexive subject) cause
each other to join."
So, if I understand correctly what has been explained so far, then the
following two sentences are correct:
{verengan Duj vIHIvchuqmoH jIH}
I caused the ferengi ships to attack each other
{HIvchuqmoH verengan Duj}
the ferengi ships caused each other to attack each other</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>That last one is <i>the Ferengi ships cause each other to attack</i>
or <i>the Ferengi ship causes someone unspecified to attack each
other.</i> In neither case does the subject attack itself.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLKMDVg9HZJRLfdPx_Yn4aoiss3yVz84HWi8qa4aHX2EQ@mail.gmail.com">
<pre wrap="">But if I wrote:
{verengan Duj luHIvchuqmoH cha' Duj nov}
two alien ships caused each other to attack the ferengi ship
{verengan Duj DIHIvchuqmoH maH tlhIH je}
We and you caused each other to attack the ferengi ships
Then both of these sentences are wrong.
Is my understanding correct ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes. Unless Klingon allows reflexive verbs to also take objects,
which there is, I think, slight evidence of. For example, the
thinking goes that you can't say <b>tuqlIj qun wIja'chuq.</b></p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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