[110751] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object using {'oH}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Tue Aug 22 10:33:13 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <20170822142343.EDC928DB25CF@zapata.dreamhost.com>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:33:09 +0300
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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SuStel:
> Your original subject line is =E2=80=9CSentence as object using *=E2=80=
=98oH*.=E2=80=9D
Yes it is, but that's because the original sentence of the thread seemed to
me as "a sentence as object using {'oH}"; not because I was trying to bend
the rules, so as to create a sao with an {'oH}, instead of {'e'}.
Anyway, thanks for answering and clarifying this matter.
SuStel, reH choQaHmo' qatlho', 'ej tlho'wIj Daghaj.
qunnoq
On Aug 22, 2017 5:23 PM, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> Your original subject line is =E2=80=9CSentence as object using *=E2=80=
=98oH*.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Your original sentence, without *=E2=80=98e=E2=80=99,* is not correct. In=
the *A pro B=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99
> *construction, A and B are nouns or noun phrases, not sentences.
>
>
>
> The proposed version with *=E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 *might be technically corr=
ect, but I have
> a hard time believing Klingons use verb-acting pronouns in
> sentence-as-object constructions. The final verb in an SAO should general=
ly
> be something simple and unexceptional.
>
>
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
>
> *From: *mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:27 AM
> *To: *tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> *Subject: *Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object using {'oH}
>
>
>
> SuStel:
>
> > Why are you twisting in knots trying to use a sentence as
>
> > object with a pronoun?
>
>
>
> I'm not trying to use a sentence as object with a pronoun. I'm trying
> however to understand what is right and what is wrong.
>
>
>
> The initial sentence of the thread, the {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj
> 'oH vIt'e'}, was written by me, and I posted here because I was wondering
> (and still am), with regards to whether it is a valid/correct sentence.
>
>
>
> The second sentence, the {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'}=
,
> was written by Antony Appleyard and I asked because I was wondering (and
> still am), whether it is correct.
>
>
>
> I'm not trying to create new rules, or extract new rules from the existin=
g
> ones, but if I don't ask then I will never learn.
>
>
>
> qunnoq
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 22, 2017 3:54 PM, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>
> Why are you twisting in knots trying to use a sentence as object with a
> pronoun?
>
>
>
> chabHommeylIj Sopbejta' vIghro'wIj
>
>
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
>
> *From: *mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:00 AM
> *To: *tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> *Subject: *Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object using {'oH}
>
>
>
> De'vID:
>
> > What is the object of {'oH}?
>
>
>
> I think it is the sentence which precedes it. I think it is the
> {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj}.
>
>
>
> Antony Appleyard:
>
> > {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'}
>
>
>
> Is {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'} correct ?
>
>
>
> qunnoq
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">SuStel:<div dir=3D"auto">>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">Your original subject line is =E2=80=9C=
Sentence as object using=C2=A0</span><b style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;fon=
t-size:13.696px">=E2=80=98oH</b><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-=
size:13.696px">.=E2=80=9D</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font=
-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><=
span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">Yes it is, but tha=
t's because the original sentence of the thread seemed to me as "a=
sentence as object using {'oH}"; not because I was trying to bend=
the rules, so as to create a sao with an {'oH}, instead of {'e'=
;}.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;fon=
t-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">Anyway, thanks for answering and clarify=
ing this matter.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:s=
ans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">SuStel, reH choQaHmo' q=
atlho', 'ej tlho'wIj Daghaj.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div=
dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">qun=
noq</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">On Aug 22, 2017 5:23 PM, "SuStel" <<a href=3D"mailto:sust=
el@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attributio=
n"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"#954F72"><div class=3D"m_-8440750637174287016WordSection1"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">Your original subject line is =E2=80=9CSentence as object using =
<b>=E2=80=98oH</b>.=E2=80=9D</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your original sentence, without <b>=E2=80=98e=E2=
=80=99,</b> is not correct. In the <b>A pro B=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 </b>constr=
uction, A and B are nouns or noun phrases, not sentences.</p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">The proposed versio=
n with <b>=E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 </b>might be technically correct, but I have =
a hard time believing Klingons use verb-acting pronouns in sentence-as-obje=
ct constructions. The final verb in an SAO should generally be something si=
mple and unexceptional.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br>SuStel<br><a href=3D"http://trimboli.name" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;p=
adding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"border:none;paddi=
ng:0in"><b>From: </b><a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>mayqel qunenoS</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:27 AM<br><b>=
To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhingan-=
hol@kli.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object us=
ing {'oH}</p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">SuStel:</p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">> Why =
are you twisting in knots trying to use a sentence as=C2=A0</span></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Arial",sans-serif">> object with a pronoun?</span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-=
serif">I'm not trying to use a sentence as object with a pronoun. I'=
;m trying however to understand what is right and what is wrong.</span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">The initial sentence of the thread, the {chabHommeylIj Sopt=
a' vIghro'wIj 'oH vIt'e'}, was written by me, and I pos=
ted here because I was wondering (and still am), with regards to whether it=
is a valid/correct sentence.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The second sentence=
, the {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'=
e'}, was written by Antony Appleyard and I asked because I was wonderin=
g (and still am), whether it is correct.</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I'm =
not trying to create new rules, or extract new rules from the existing ones=
, but if I don't ask then I will never learn.</span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"=
>qunnoq</span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>On Aug 22, 2017 3:54 PM, "SuStel" <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@t=
rimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</p><blo=
ckquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">Why are you twisting in knots trying to use a sentence as object with=
a pronoun?</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">chab=
HommeylIj Sopbejta' vIghro'wIj</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"color:#888888">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span style=3D"color:#888888">-- <br>SuStel<br><a href=3D"http://trimboli.na=
me" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt=
0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:#888888">From:=
</span></b><span style=3D"color:#888888"><a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">mayqel qunenoS</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, August 22=
, 2017 8:00 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=
=3D"_blank">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [tlhIngan Hol] =
Sentence as object using {'oH}<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p><div><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none=
;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8p=
t;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">De'vID:</p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></d=
iv><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0=
pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-righ=
t:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">> What is th=
e object of {'oH}?</p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think it is t=
he sentence which precedes it. I think it is the {chabHommeylIj Sopta' =
vIghro'wIj}.</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Antony Appleyard:</p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif=
">> {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'=
;e'}</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Ari=
al",sans-serif">Is {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e'=
; 'oH vIt'e'} correct ?</span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">=C2=A0</p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">qunnoq</span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>______________________________<wbr>______________=
___<br>tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kl=
i.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br><a href=3D"http:=
//lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/lists.kli.org/listinfo.<wbr>cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a></p></blockquote><=
/div></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div><br>_________________=
_____________<wbr>_________________<br>
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