[110750] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object using {'oH}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Aug 22 10:23:45 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:23:06 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKENAiZX8g0CHPpH+jX+4jE-NU4P-mvOEPFgvbG4+K-Jw@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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Your original subject line is =E2=80=9CSentence as object using =E2=80=98oH=
.=E2=80=9D
Your original sentence, without =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99, is not correct. In the=
A pro B=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 construction, A and B are nouns or noun phrases=
, not sentences.
The proposed version with =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 might be technically correct,=
but I have a hard time believing Klingons use verb-acting pronouns in sent=
ence-as-object constructions. The final verb in an SAO should generally be =
something simple and unexceptional.
--=20
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
From: mayqel qunenoS
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:27 AM
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object using {'oH}
SuStel:
> Why are you twisting in knots trying to use a sentence as=C2=A0
> object with a pronoun?
I'm not trying to use a sentence as object with a pronoun. I'm trying howev=
er to understand what is right and what is wrong.
The initial sentence of the thread, the {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'o=
H vIt'e'}, was written by me, and I posted here because I was wondering (an=
d still am), with regards to whether it is a valid/correct sentence.
The second sentence, the {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'}, =
was written by Antony Appleyard and I asked because I was wondering (and st=
ill am), whether it is correct.
I'm not trying to create new rules, or extract new rules from the existing =
ones, but if I don't ask then I will never learn.
qunnoq
On Aug 22, 2017 3:54 PM, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
Why are you twisting in knots trying to use a sentence as object with a pro=
noun?
=C2=A0
chabHommeylIj Sopbejta' vIghro'wIj
=C2=A0
--=20
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
=C2=A0
From: mayqel qunenoS
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:00 AM
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object using {'oH}
=C2=A0
De'vID:
> What is the object of {'oH}?
=C2=A0
I think it is the sentence which precedes it. I think it is the {chabHommey=
lIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj}.
=C2=A0
Antony Appleyard:
> {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'}
=C2=A0
Is {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'} correct ?
=C2=A0
qunnoq
=C2=A0
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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72"><div cla=
ss=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Your original subject line is =E2=80=
=9CSentence as object using <b>=E2=80=98oH</b>.=E2=80=9D</p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Your original sentence, wit=
hout <b>=E2=80=98e=E2=80=99,</b> is not correct. In the <b>A pro B=E2=80=99=
e=E2=80=99 </b>construction, A and B are nouns or noun phrases, not sentenc=
es.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The p=
roposed version with <b>=E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 </b>might be technically correc=
t, but I have a hard time believing Klingons use verb-acting pronouns in se=
ntence-as-object constructions. The final verb in an SAO should generally b=
e something simple and unexceptional.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>-- <br>SuStel<br>http://trimboli.name</p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style=3D'mso-element:para-border-=
div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href=
=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mayqel qunenoS</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, A=
ugust 22, 2017 9:27 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org=
">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence a=
s object using {'oH}</p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>SuStel:</p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> Why are you twis=
ting in knots trying to use a sentence as </span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-ser=
if'>> object with a pronoun?</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I'm not trying to use a sentence a=
s object with a pronoun. I'm trying however to understand what is right and=
what is wrong.</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-fa=
mily:"Arial",sans-serif'>The initial sentence of the thread, the {chabHomme=
ylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'oH vIt'e'}, was written by me, and I posted here be=
cause I was wondering (and still am), with regards to whether it is a valid=
/correct sentence.</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o=
:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The second sentence, the {chabHommeylIj Sopta' =
vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'}, was written by Antony Appleyard and I asked bec=
ause I was wondering (and still am), whether it is correct.</span></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I'm no=
t trying to create new rules, or extract new rules from the existing ones, =
but if I don't ask then I will never learn.</span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>qunnoq</span></p></d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p=
> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Aug 22, 2017 3:54 PM, "S=
uStel" <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.nam=
e</a>> wrote:</p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCC=
CCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bot=
tom-alt:auto'>Why are you twisting in knots trying to use a sentence as obj=
ect with a pronoun?</p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:aut=
o;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>chabHommeylIj Sopbejta' vIgh=
ro'wIj</p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-=
bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'color:#888888'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span style=3D'color:#888888'>-- <br>SuStel<br><a href=3D"http://tri=
mboli.name" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto'><span style=3D'color:#888888'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div styl=
e=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><b><span style=3D'color:#888888'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'col=
or:#888888'><a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mayqel q=
unenoS</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:00 AM<br><b>To: </b><=
a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhingan-hol@kli.o=
rg</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object using {'oH}=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p><div><div><div><blockquot=
e style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0=
pt'><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>De'vID:</p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><=
/div><div><div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1=
.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-ri=
ght:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-ma=
rgin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>> What is the object of {'=
oH}?</p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto'>I think it is the sentence which precedes it. I think it is the {=
chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj}.</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto'>Antony Appleyard:</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj =
'e' 'oH vIt'e'}</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-marg=
in-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Is {chabHomm=
eylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'} correct ?</span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:aut=
o'> </p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:a=
uto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family=
:"Arial",sans-serif'>qunnoq</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-mar=
gin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> </p></div></div></div><p=
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_____________________=
__________________________<br>tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailt=
o:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br><a href=3D"=
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org</a></p></blockquote><=
/div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>=
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