[110639] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] lojmItmey yISam
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Wed Aug 16 09:19:44 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <8d3e1c30-6a0f-06df-44ec-5bdacea6429d@trimboli.name>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:19:40 +0300
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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SuStel:
> Forgetting that inherently plural nouns are grammatically
> singular
Is this a rule, that inherently plural nouns in english (for example
"coordinates") are always grammatically singular in klingon ?
qunnoq
On 16 Aug 2017 4:15 pm, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 8/16/2017 6:25 AM, De'vID wrote:
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 08:46, Philip Newton <philip.newton@gmail.com> <philip.newton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Someone recently used {yIvoq 'ach lojmItmey yISam}.
>
> At first, I corrected the writer with {tISam} but was then told it was
> a quote from TKW:
>
> yIvoq 'ach lojmItmey yISam
> Trust, but locate the doors. TKW (sic for {tISam})
>
> Has this usage ever been explained?
>
> Was it a typographical error by the booksetter? A thinko by the
> author? Is it a survivor of older Klingon grammar? Or an innovation by
> some Klingons like {puqpu' tu'lu'}, similar to "Who did you see?" in
> English?
>
> No, but considering its content, context (next to {yIvoq 'ach yI'ol}),
> and the explanatory paragraph ("one must always be careful"), I'm
> inclined to think it's a deliberate joke.
>
> Note that, earlier, Okrand had translated "trust your instincts" as
> {Duj tIvoqtaH} in TKD, and on p. 26 of TKW the phrase {DujlIj yIvoq}
> is given, with the explanation that {Duj} "instincts" can be
> grammatically singular or plural. I think someone tried to "correct"
> him about that prefix, and TKW is the response. (He uses {tI-}
> correctly elsewhere in the book.)
>
> How very *Canticle for Leibowitz.* Let's not worship the holy shopping
> list. Using *yI-* where you should use *tI-* is one of the most common of
> errors. I do it sometimes, even when I got it right elsewhere in the same
> text. Forgetting that inherently plural nouns are grammatically singular is
> another common mistake. Okrand will occasionally retrofit an explanation
> for his errors, but he doesn't go out of his way to commit them. (It's not
> like the copy editor of the book would have been able to catch his
> mistakes.)
>
> --
> SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
>
>
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> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
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>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">SuStel:<div dir=3D"auto">>=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">Forgetting that inherently plural nouns=
are grammatically=C2=A0</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-=
family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> singular</span></div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span=
></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13=
.696px">Is this a rule, that inherently plural nouns in english (for exampl=
e "coordinates") are always grammatically singular in klingon ?</=
span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-siz=
e:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:s=
ans-serif;font-size:13.696px">qunnoq</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 16 Aug 2017 4:15 pm, "SuStel&=
quot; <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@trimboli.name</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<div class=3D"m_-1599614868810649500moz-cite-prefix">On 8/16/2017 6:25 =
AM, De'vID wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<pre>On 16 August 2017 at 08:46, Philip Newton <a class=3D"m_-1599614=
868810649500moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:philip.newton@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank"><philip.newton@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"color:#000000">
<pre>Someone recently used {yIvoq 'ach lojmItmey yISam}.
At first, I corrected the writer with {tISam} but was then told it was
a quote from TKW:
yIvoq 'ach lojmItmey yISam
Trust, but locate the doors. TKW (sic for {tISam})
Has this usage ever been explained?
Was it a typographical error by the booksetter? A thinko by the
author? Is it a survivor of older Klingon grammar? Or an innovation by
some Klingons like {puqpu' tu'lu'}, similar to "Who did yo=
u see?" in
English?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>No, but considering its content, context (next to {yIvoq 'ac=
h yI'ol}),
and the explanatory paragraph ("one must always be careful"), I&#=
39;m
inclined to think it's a deliberate joke.
Note that, earlier, Okrand had translated "trust your instincts" =
as
{Duj tIvoqtaH} in TKD, and on p. 26 of TKW the phrase {DujlIj yIvoq}
is given, with the explanation that {Duj} "instincts" can be
grammatically singular or plural. I think someone tried to "correct&qu=
ot;
him about that prefix, and TKW is the response. (He uses {tI-}
correctly elsewhere in the book.)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>How very <i>Canticle for Leibowitz.</i> Let's not worship the
holy shopping list. Using <b>yI-</b> where you should use <b>tI-</b>
is one of the most common of errors. I do it sometimes, even when
I got it right elsewhere in the same text. Forgetting that
inherently plural nouns are grammatically singular is another
common mistake. Okrand will occasionally retrofit an explanation
for his errors, but he doesn't go out of his way to commit them.
(It's not like the copy editor of the book would have been able t=
o
catch his mistakes.)<br>
</p>
<pre class=3D"m_-1599614868810649500moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
SuStel
<a class=3D"m_-1599614868810649500moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://tri=
mboli.name" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
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