[110551] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] When did you buy the phone which you now use ?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Fri Aug 11 09:45:45 2017
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To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:45:30 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cLjucGWWqfTRf+Dz1STfuvgfHjbagXx6wCmX=nregpS6A@mail.gmail.com>
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On 8/11/2017 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> I was wondering whether we can pack into a single klingon sentence,
> the question:
>
> "When did you buy the phone, which you now use ?"
>
> If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would have:
>
> {ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?}
>
> But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and {DaH}, results in an
> awkward sentence.
>
> The only solution I can think of, is omitting the {DaH} and placing a
> {-taH} on the {lo'} like this:
>
> {ghorgh ghogh HablI' Dalo'taHbogh Daje' ?}
>
> But would there be another way to do this ?
Your solution of adding *-taH* doesn't contain the /now/ meaning you're
trying to move. This could just as easily mean /When did you buy the
phone which you were using?
/
Relative clauses only like to get so complicated before they become
confusing. I think you're correct in thinking that this one is awkward.
The trouble isn't so much putting *ghorgh* next to *DaH,* but in
recognizing that all the stuff you're saying after *ghorgh* is actually
a relative clause -- you have to wait so long before you hear the
*-bogh* that it may not be clear that it really is a relative clause,
and you'll have to adjust your understanding of the sentence once you do
figure that out.
I would break the relative clause out into a topic, like so: *DaH ghogh
HablI''e' Dalo'bogh: ghorgh Daje'?* This is still a single sentence, and
it's technically grammatical, though it plays a bit loose with exactly
what the object of the main clause is (it's *'oH*, not *DaH ghogh
HablI''e' Dalo'bogh*).
--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/11/2017 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLjucGWWqfTRf+Dz1STfuvgfHjbagXx6wCmX=nregpS6A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">I was wondering whether we can pack into a single
klingon sentence, the question:
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">"When did you buy the phone, which you now use ?"<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would
have:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">{ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?}</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and
{DaH}, results in an awkward sentence.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The only solution I can think of, is omitting the
{DaH} and placing a {-taH} on the {lo'} like this:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">{ghorgh ghogh
HablI' Dalo'taHbogh Daje' ?}</span><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">But would
there be another way to do this ?</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Your solution of adding <b>-taH</b> doesn't contain the <i>now</i>
meaning you're trying to move. This could just as easily mean <i>When
did you buy the phone which you were using?<br>
</i></p>
<p>Relative clauses only like to get so complicated before they
become confusing. I think you're correct in thinking that this one
is awkward. The trouble isn't so much putting <b>ghorgh</b> next
to <b>DaH,</b> but in recognizing that all the stuff you're
saying after <b>ghorgh</b> is actually a relative clause -- you
have to wait so long before you hear the <b>-bogh</b> that it may
not be clear that it really is a relative clause, and you'll have
to adjust your understanding of the sentence once you do figure
that out.<br>
</p>
<p>I would break the relative clause out into a topic, like so: <b>DaH
ghogh HablI''e' Dalo'bogh: ghorgh Daje'?</b> This is still a
single sentence, and it's technically grammatical, though it plays
a bit loose with exactly what the object of the main clause is
(it's <b>'oH</b>, not <b>DaH ghogh HablI''e' Dalo'bogh</b>).<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.trimboli.name/">http://www.trimboli.name/</a></pre>
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