[110525] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Is Star Trek: Discovery a new canon category?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Alan Anderson)
Thu Aug 10 23:42:18 2017
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From: Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 23:41:54 -0400
To: Klingon language email discussion forum <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
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On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 10:28 PM, nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the major differences between Discovery and Klingon Hamlet is that
> Discovery is going to be Actual Star Trek Canon.
>
It's going to be *Star Trek* canon. We already put a higher standard than
that on canonical tlhIngan Hol. I believe the only thing that elevates
something to that standard is having Marc Okrand produce it and/or put his
name on it.
> As far as the Star Trek fanbase at large is concerned, Qov's sentences are
> going to be as canonical as anything else on the shows and movies.
>
You mean like "nagosse tilo-g cha da!" for ending a marriage or "nooknay
kaylogness" as a greeting? Fine, they'll be canonical Star Trek. I expect
they will be exceptionally good, if not impeccable, tlhIngan Hol. I still
don't believe they should be enshrined as "example sentences" alongside the
Useful Klingon Expressions from TKD, the curses in PK, the proverbs in TKW,
the idioms in KGT, etc.
> If Qov writes "X is the way to say sentence Y in Klingon" and that's what
> the show uses as the translation, that's going to be treated as
> authoritatively as, say, the idea that you can get a deceased loved one
> into Sto-Vo-Kor by dedicating a glorious battle to them (like Worf did for
> Jadzia). How should we deal with that? Are we okay ignoring things depicted
> as Klingon Canon on the show?
>
Who's calling for them to be ignored? They should be embraced and
celebrated, but they should not be exalted.
> Of course, if Okrand wants to change his precedent and not approve this
> particular TV Klingon as real, {vaj may' bom pIm wIbom.} Has he said
> anything about this one way or another?
>
He doesn't "approve" everything seen on screen. We have no real way to
incorporate "louk, a jee chim ta law" or "bIHnuch" into our knowledge of
productive tlhIngan Hol rules and examples, for instance.
Anything he *does* approve is worth recording in a dictionary or collection
of examples to use for teaching, certainly.
-- ghunchu'wI'
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Aug 10, 2017 at 10:28 PM, nIqolay Q <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:niqolay0@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">niqolay0@gmail.com</a>></span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>One of the=
major differences between Discovery and Klingon Hamlet is that Discovery i=
s going to be Actual Star Trek Canon.</div></div></blockquote><div><br>It&#=
39;s going to be *Star Trek* canon. We already put a higher standard than t=
hat on canonical tlhIngan Hol. I believe the only thing that elevates somet=
hing to that standard is having Marc Okrand produce it and/or put his name =
on it.<br>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
As far as the Star Trek fanbase at large is concerned, Qov's sentences=
are going to be as canonical as anything else on the shows and movies.</di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br>You mean like "nagosse tilo-g cha da!&qu=
ot; for ending a marriage or "nooknay kaylogness" as a greeting? =
Fine, they'll be canonical Star Trek. I expect they will be exceptional=
ly good, if not impeccable, tlhIngan Hol. I still don't believe they sh=
ould be enshrined as "example sentences" alongside the Useful Kli=
ngon Expressions from TKD, the curses in PK, the proverbs in TKW, the idiom=
s in KGT, etc.<br><br>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div> If Qov writes "X is the way to say sentence Y in Klingo=
n" and that's what the show uses as the translation, that's go=
ing to be treated as authoritatively as, say, the idea that you can get a d=
eceased loved one into Sto-Vo-Kor by dedicating a glorious battle to them (=
like Worf did for Jadzia). How should we deal with that? Are we okay ignori=
ng things depicted as Klingon Canon on the show?<br></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><br></div><div>Who's calling for them to be ignored? They should=
be embraced and celebrated, but they should not be exalted.</div><div>=C2=
=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Of course=
, if Okrand wants to change his precedent and not approve this particular T=
V Klingon as real, {vaj may' bom pIm wIbom.} Has he said anything about=
this one way or another?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>He do=
esn't "approve" everything seen on screen. We have no real wa=
y to incorporate "louk, a jee chim ta law" or "bIHnuch"=
into our knowledge of productive tlhIngan Hol rules and examples, for inst=
ance.<br><br>Anything he *does* approve is worth recording in a dictionary =
or collection of examples to use for teaching, certainly.</div><div><br>-- =
ghunchu'wI'</div></div></div></div>
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