[110479] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Reversing the order of {-vo'}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Thu Aug 10 12:14:23 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:13:50 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmOxv-5ZvGC4Ra8grkbmaudmMfNQUP84E1Y5V=CKLhZWww@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============3981293179968273112==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------9A48619613C8EC794F3BA423"
Content-Language: en-US
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------9A48619613C8EC794F3BA423
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 8/10/2017 11:43 AM, De'vID wrote:
> On Aug 10, 2017 17:06, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name
> <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote:
>
> On 8/10/2017 10:38 AM, De'vID wrote:
>
> How would you write "he returns from the great hall at the
> Federation
> command centre on Earth"?
>
>
> tera' DIvI' ra'ghom qach vaS'a'vo' chegh
>
> ghunchu'wI' is right: you can't put those type 5 suffixes in the
> middle of this.
>
>
> Why not? It's not a noun-noun construction, it's a chain of locatives.
> I think multiple locatives is like multiple adverbials: there hasn't
> been a canon example, but nothing forbids it (unless there's a rule
> I've overlooked).
You wrote:
*[vaS'a']vo' [tera'Daq DIvI' ra'ghom qach]Daq chegh**
**[tera'Daq DIvI' ra'ghom qachDaq vaS'a']vo' chegh*
Your brackets show locatives and froms affecting entire phrases that
include other locatives or froms. This is exactly what the noun-noun
restriction prohibits. You can't say this any more than you can say
*mIvDaq yIHvo'*//to mean /from the tribble [that is] in the helmet./ The
phrase **mIvDaq yIH* itself is illegal. A syntactic noun cannot be the
genitive to a head noun. At best, *mIvDaq yIHvo'* can mean /in the
helmet, from the tribble,/ but there is absolutely no connection (no
genitive relationship) between the tribble and the helmet. The two words
might happen to sit next to each other in a larger sentence, but they
have no direct relationship.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
--------------9A48619613C8EC794F3BA423
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/10/2017 11:43 AM, De'vID wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+7zAmOxv-5ZvGC4Ra8grkbmaudmMfNQUP84E1Y5V=CKLhZWww@mail.gmail.com">
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Aug 10, 2017 17:06, "SuStel" <<a
href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" moz-do-not-send="true">sustel@trimboli.name</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="quoted-text">On 8/10/2017 10:38 AM, De'vID
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
How would you write "he returns from the great hall at
the Federation<br>
command centre on Earth"?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div class="quoted-text">
tera' DIvI' ra'ghom qach vaS'a'vo' chegh<br>
<br>
</div>
ghunchu'wI' is right: you can't put those type 5 suffixes
in the middle of this.</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Why not? It's not a noun-noun construction, it's a
chain of locatives. I think multiple locatives is like multiple
adverbials: there hasn't been a canon example, but nothing
forbids it (unless there's a rule I've overlooked).</div>
</blockquote>
<p>You wrote:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>[vaS'a']vo' [tera'Daq DIvI' ra'ghom qach]Daq chegh</b><b><br>
</b><b>[tera'Daq DIvI' ra'ghom qachDaq vaS'a']vo' chegh</b></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Your brackets show locatives and froms affecting entire phrases
that include other locatives or froms. This is exactly what the
noun-noun restriction prohibits. You can't say this any more than
you can say <b>mIvDaq yIHvo'</b><i> </i>to mean <i>from the
tribble [that is] in the helmet.</i> The phrase <b>*mIvDaq yIH</b>
itself is illegal. A syntactic noun cannot be the genitive to a
head noun. At best, <b>mIvDaq yIHvo'</b> can mean <i>in the
helmet, from the tribble,</i> but there is absolutely no
connection (no genitive relationship) between the tribble and the
helmet. The two words might happen to sit next to each other in a
larger sentence, but they have no direct relationship.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</body>
</html>
--------------9A48619613C8EC794F3BA423--
--===============3981293179968273112==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--===============3981293179968273112==--
