[110084] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] My list of 19 new words revisited
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Thu Jul 27 10:43:51 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 10:43:17 -0400
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On 7/27/2017 12:02 AM, Jesse Manoogian wrote:
>
> be blonde: SuD (be yellow) works fine
I would accept a phrase like *jIb SuD, *but not *Human SuD.* In English
a person can be blond, but Klingon *SuD* isn't specifically for
describing hair color, so *Human SuD* would be like saying /yellow
human/ in English.
By the way, *SuD* means /be blue, green, yellow,/ not just /be yellow.
/By describing hair as *SuD,* you're also describing people who dye
their hair those colors (or maybe aliens with green or blue hair). This
is fine, but if you ever want to make a distinction between the yellow
sort of *SuD* and the blue or green sorts of *SuD,* you'll want to say
*SuD 'ej wov*/*SuD* and light, yellow./ *SuD jIb 'ej wov*/the hair is
yellow;/*SuDbogh jIb 'ej wovbogh / SuDbogh 'ej wovbogh jIb*/hair which
is yellow./
> be straight (of hair): beQ (be flat)
We have the word *wan* which means /be straight./ I don't see why this
can't be applied to hair.
> be curly: gho rur (resemble a circle)
If someone said *gho rur jIbDaj*/his hair resembles a circle,/ I
wouldn't understand. I don't have a good alternative, though.
> be wavy: yu'eghmey rur (resemble waves)
> be bald: jIb ghajbe' (to not have hair)
> be hazel: SuD 'ej wovbe' (be yellow/green and non-bright -- I thought
> "SuD 'ej Doq 'ej wovbe'" was too unwieldy)
I would consider *SuD 'ej wovbe'* to be blue. Hazel, the color, is light
golden brown. /Brown/ is *Doq 'ej wovbe'* (so how to say /light brown/
is unclear to me... maybe *Doq 'ej loQ wovbe'*?).//The color /gold/ is a
sort of yellow-orange, which would be somewhere between *Doq* and *SuD
'ej wov.* Hazel eyes shift between brown and light gold, sometimes with
blue in them. There's no way you're going to get Klingon colors to
describe them simply. Even in English, /hazel/ is just a way of saying,
"it depends."
> freckles: DIrvemmey (skin-mark-PL)
You should put spaces between nouns.
*vem* seems to me to be tracks or marks left behind by something making
them, not naturally occurring features. I don't have an alternative.
> wrinkle: bentlhegh (age-line)
This is an interesting construction, but I don't know if *ben* can refer
to /age/ like that.
> glasses: mIn'al'onmey (eye-glass-PL)
I would figure that out, but I highly doubt that would be the real term.
Maybe *mIn laH tI'wI'* or something similar.
> braces: Ho'baS (tooth-metal -- it's singular -- as I understand, they
> say the singular "brace" in British English, so this has precedent)
I would understand this, but as with glasses I don't know if this would
be the way to say it. I would imagine *Ho' wanmoHwI' *or *Ho' wanmoHmeH
baS* or something like that.
In Klingon, in most cases, all nouns are inherently both singular and
plural. That is, if I say the word *Ho'* it means both /tooth/ and
/teeth./ Context or grammar may make it explicit, but you can't just
take the word *Ho'* and force people to interpret it as singular.
> tattoo: DIrmIllogh (skin-picture)
> jeans: yopwaH ghegh (rough pants) -- and I also notice "yopwaH buq"
> for "pants pouch; trouser pocket" -- how about buq yopwaH for cargo pants?
I have no problem with these as descriptions of these things, though I
wouldn't expect them to be THE terms for them.
> polo shirt: wep yor poSmoH ([sleeved] shirt with open top)
This says /jacket it causes the top to open./ Notice that *wep* is a
regional-only term for /sleeved shirt;/ outside of whichever region on
Kronos it means that people will assume you're talking about a jacket.
There is no standard term for /shirt, /but there is a description of a
t-shirt, which is *yIvbeH SeQHa'*/informal tunic./ Now, a polo shirt
isn't as informal as a t-shirt, but it's not exactly a tunic either. Its
defining characteristics are that it is short-sleeved, heavier than a
t-shirt, and has a collar. Given all that, I might compromise with
*mongDech ghajbogh yIvbeH SeQHa'.* Not perfect, but that's what you get
trying to translate between cultures.
> tank top: be'nalmoqwI' (a calque of the English wifebeater)
NONONONONO! Ugh! The term is bad enough in English without porting it to
Klingon.
Just say *tlhay ghajbe'bogh yIvbeH*/tunic without sleeves./
> headphones: nachQoywI' (head-hearer . . . a calque from the German
> Kopfhörer)
Another one I would figure out which I wouldn't use. I'd say *qoghDaq
QoymeH jan*//*tu**Qbogh*/hearing device which one wears on/in the ears./
> skateboard: rutlh'echlet (wheel-board)
I'd get it.
> guitar: javHurDagh (six + stringed instrument)
I wouldn't get it. If you don't want to approximate by just saying
*HurDagh,* be explicit and say *jav SIrgh ghajbogh HurDagh.* Or use a
foreign term and say /guitar./
> bass: javHurDagh jaQ (deep guitar)
I don't think *jaQ* means that kind of /deep./
> be teenage, be adolescent: nenchoH (become adult)
Your translation of *nenchoH *as /become adult/ is correct, but /become
adult/ doesn't mean /be teenage; be adolescent./ *nenbe'* /not mature;/
*nenHa'*/immature;/*wej nen*/not yet mature./ I don't have any simple
translation for /teenage/ that isn't literally just /more than twelve,
less than twenty./
> teen, adolescent, youth, young adult: nuv nenchoH (person becoming adult)
*nuv nenchoH* is a nonsensical phrase saying /he/she/it becomes mature,
person./ If you want to say /the //person is becoming an adult,/ say
*nenchoH nuv.* If you want /the person who is becoming an adult, /say
*nenchoHbogh nuv.*
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/27/2017 12:02 AM, Jesse Manoogian
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com"><br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3530">
be blonde: SuD (be yellow) works fine<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3531">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I would accept a phrase like <b>jIb SuD, </b>but not <b>Human
SuD.</b> In English a person can be blond, but Klingon <b>SuD</b>
isn't specifically for describing hair color, so <b>Human SuD</b>
would be like saying <i>yellow human</i> in English.</p>
<p>By the way, <b>SuD</b> means <i>be blue, green, yellow,</i> not
just <i>be yellow. </i>By describing hair as <b>SuD,</b> you're
also describing people who dye their hair those colors (or maybe
aliens with green or blue hair). This is fine, but if you ever
want to make a distinction between the yellow sort of <b>SuD</b>
and the blue or green sorts of <b>SuD,</b> you'll want to say <b>SuD
'ej wov</b><i> <b>SuD</b> and light, yellow.</i> <b>SuD jIb
'ej wov</b><i> the hair is yellow;</i><b> SuDbogh jIb 'ej
wovbogh / SuDbogh 'ej wovbogh jIb</b><i> hair which is yellow.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">be
straight (of hair): beQ (be flat)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3532">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>We have the word <b>wan</b> which means <i>be straight.</i> I
don't see why this can't be applied to hair.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">be curly:
gho rur (resemble a circle)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3533">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>If someone said <b>gho rur jIbDaj</b><i> his hair resembles a
circle,</i> I wouldn't understand. I don't have a good
alternative, though.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">be wavy:
yu'eghmey rur (resemble waves)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3534">
be bald: jIb ghajbe' (to not have hair)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3535">
be hazel: SuD 'ej wovbe' (be yellow/green and non-bright -- I
thought "SuD 'ej Doq 'ej wovbe'" was too unwieldy)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3536">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I would consider <b>SuD 'ej wovbe'</b> to be blue. Hazel, the
color, is light golden brown. <i>Brown</i> is <b>Doq 'ej wovbe'</b>
(so how to say <i>light brown</i> is unclear to me... maybe <b>Doq
'ej loQ wovbe'</b>?).<i> </i>The color <i>gold</i> is a sort
of yellow-orange, which would be somewhere between <b>Doq</b> and
<b>SuD 'ej wov.</b> Hazel eyes shift between brown and light gold,
sometimes with blue in them. There's no way you're going to get
Klingon colors to describe them simply. Even in English, <i>hazel</i>
is just a way of saying, "it depends."<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">freckles:
DIrvemmey (skin-mark-PL)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3537">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>You should put spaces between nouns.</p>
<p><b>vem</b> seems to me to be tracks or marks left behind by
something making them, not naturally occurring features. I don't
have an alternative.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">wrinkle:
bentlhegh (age-line)<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3538">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>This is an interesting construction, but I don't know if <b>ben</b>
can refer to <i>age</i> like that.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">glasses:
mIn'al'onmey (eye-glass-PL)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3539">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I would figure that out, but I highly doubt that would be the
real term. Maybe <b>mIn laH tI'wI'</b> or something similar.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">braces:
Ho'baS (tooth-metal -- it's singular -- as I understand, they say
the singular "brace" in British English, so this has precedent)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3540">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I would understand this, but as with glasses I don't know if this
would be the way to say it. I would imagine <b>Ho' wanmoHwI' </b>or
<b>Ho' wanmoHmeH baS</b> or something like that.</p>
<p>In Klingon, in most cases, all nouns are inherently both singular
and plural. That is, if I say the word <b>Ho'</b> it means both <i>tooth</i>
and <i>teeth.</i> Context or grammar may make it explicit, but
you can't just take the word <b>Ho'</b> and force people to
interpret it as singular.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">tattoo:
DIrmIllogh (skin-picture)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3541">
jeans: yopwaH ghegh (rough pants) -- and I also notice "yopwaH
buq" for "pants pouch; trouser pocket" -- how about buq yopwaH for
cargo pants?<br id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3542">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I have no problem with these as descriptions of these things,
though I wouldn't expect them to be THE terms for them.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">polo
shirt: wep yor poSmoH ([sleeved] shirt with open top)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3543">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>This says <i>jacket it causes the top to open.</i> Notice that <b>wep</b>
is a regional-only term for <i>sleeved shirt;</i> outside of
whichever region on Kronos it means that people will assume you're
talking about a jacket. There is no standard term for <i>shirt, </i>but
there is a description of a t-shirt, which is <b>yIvbeH SeQHa'</b><i>
informal tunic.</i> Now, a polo shirt isn't as informal as a
t-shirt, but it's not exactly a tunic either. Its defining
characteristics are that it is short-sleeved, heavier than a
t-shirt, and has a collar. Given all that, I might compromise with
<b>mongDech ghajbogh yIvbeH SeQHa'.</b> Not perfect, but that's
what you get trying to translate between cultures. <br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">tank top:
be'nalmoqwI' (a calque of the English wifebeater)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3544">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>NONONONONO! Ugh! The term is bad enough in English without
porting it to Klingon.<br>
</p>
<p>Just say <b>tlhay ghajbe'bogh yIvbeH</b><i> tunic without
sleeves.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">headphones:
nachQoywI' (head-hearer . . . a calque from the German Kopfhörer)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3545">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Another one I would figure out which I wouldn't use. I'd say <b>qoghDaq
QoymeH jan</b><i> </i><b>tu</b><b>Qbogh</b><i> hearing device
which one wears on/in the ears.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">skateboard:
rutlh'echlet (wheel-board)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3546">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I'd get it.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">guitar:
javHurDagh (six + stringed instrument)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3547">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I wouldn't get it. If you don't want to approximate by just
saying <b>HurDagh,</b> be explicit and say <b>jav SIrgh ghajbogh
HurDagh.</b> Or use a foreign term and say <i>guitar.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">bass:
javHurDagh jaQ (deep guitar)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3548">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I don't think <b>jaQ</b> means that kind of <i>deep.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">be
teenage, be adolescent: nenchoH (become adult)<br
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1501128078950_3549">
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Your translation of <b>nenchoH </b>as <i>become adult</i> is
correct, but <i>become adult</i> doesn't mean <i>be teenage; be
adolescent.</i> <b>nenbe'</b> <i>not mature;</i> <b>nenHa'</b><i>
immature;</i><b> wej nen</b><i> not yet mature.</i> I don't have
any simple translation for <i>teenage</i> that isn't literally
just <i>more than twelve, less than twenty.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:297927878.310013.1501128177680@mail.yahoo.com">teen,
adolescent, youth, young adult: nuv nenchoH (person becoming
adult)</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><b>nuv nenchoH</b> is a nonsensical phrase saying <i>he/she/it
becomes mature, person.</i> If you want to say <i>the </i><i>person
is becoming an adult,</i> say <b>nenchoH nuv.</b> If you want <i>the
person who is becoming an adult, </i>say <b>nenchoHbogh nuv.</b><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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