[109959] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] same sex marriage
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID)
Sat Jul 15 05:15:16 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <0bf349cc-7267-5324-10da-047ce7f2d08e@gmx.de>
From: "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2017 11:15:12 +0200
To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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On 14 Jul 2017 10:12 am, "Lieven" <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Elizabeth Faber wrote:
> shared understandings. Lieven relayed to us Maltz's statement about
> Klingon culture and language usage. That is how the statement
> should be viewed according to the norms of this group. Please keep
> within their spirit.
>
I'm not sure how you interpret her problem, I see that she sees a problem
with "heteronormativity" - which is absolutley not the core of the message.
If Maltz had said "Klingons have no same-sex marriage" I would understand
her anger, but just leaving the list without giving anyone a chance to
explain is a quite childish reaction.
The subject of this thread is a very emotional one for some people. When I
translated some phrases for Stonewall a few years ago, I thought about
asking Marc Okrand but decided against it, because I didn't want to put him
in the position of having to proclaim what Klingons thought about same-sex
marriage. If you recall the TNG episode "The Outcast", there are Star Trek
races who oppose certain combinations of sex/gender relationships. There's
no reason why Klingons couldn't be generally opposed to same-sex marriage.
After all, Klingons, Romulans, Ferengis, Vulcans, etc., are supposed to
have exaggerated versions of Humans values and vices, to be used as a
mirror for reflection. Of course, since Klingons are popular with fans,
that direction would've been controversial. But the other direction also
has the potential to offend other people for various reasons.
Consider the situation with slavery or the death penalty. We know Klingons
have those. That's one thing. But it's another to ask Maltz/Marc to
elaborate on how Klingons view slavery or the death penalty. Some people
are going to naturally react very strongly to those topics. I know some
people who can't go near the "Orion slave auctions" they have at some cons,
and it's not "childish". It's genuinely painful for them.
--
De'vID
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<div dir=3D"auto"><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">On 14 Jul 2017 10:12 am, "Lieven" <<a href=3D"mailto:leviniu=
s@gmx.de">levinius@gmx.de</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquot=
e class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"quoted-text">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:40 PM, =
Elizabeth Faber wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 shared understandings.=C2=A0 Lieven relayed to us Maltz's=
statement about<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Klingon culture and language usage.=C2=A0 That is how the sta=
tement<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 should be viewed according to the norms of this group.=C2=A0 =
Please keep<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 within their spirit.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I'm not sure how you interpret her problem, I see that she sees a probl=
em with "heteronormativity" - which is absolutley not the core of=
the message. If Maltz had said "Klingons have no same-sex marriage&qu=
ot; I would understand her anger, but just leaving the list without giving =
anyone a chance to explain is a quite childish reaction.</blockquote></div>=
</div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The subject of th=
is thread is a very emotional one for some people. When I translated some p=
hrases for Stonewall a few years ago, I thought about asking Marc Okrand bu=
t decided against it, because I didn't want to put him in the position =
of having to proclaim what Klingons thought about same-sex marriage. If you=
recall the TNG episode "The Outcast", there are Star Trek races =
who oppose certain combinations of sex/gender relationships. There's no=
reason why Klingons couldn't be generally opposed to same-sex marriage=
. After all, Klingons, Romulans, Ferengis, Vulcans, etc., are supposed to h=
ave exaggerated versions of Humans values and vices, to be used as a mirror=
for reflection. Of course, since Klingons are popular with fans, that dire=
ction would've been controversial. But the other direction also has the=
potential to offend other people for various reasons.</div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Consider the situation with slavery or the d=
eath penalty. We know Klingons have those. That's one thing. But it'=
;s another to ask Maltz/Marc to elaborate on how Klingons view slavery or t=
he death penalty. Some people are going to naturally react very strongly to=
those topics. I know some people who can't go near the "Orion sla=
ve auctions" they have at some cons, and it's not "childish&q=
uot;. It's genuinely painful for them.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">--=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">De'vID</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"></div></div>
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