[109815] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Imperatives and {-be'}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Lieven)
Thu Jul 6 15:32:15 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Lieven <levinius@gmx.de>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 21:32:12 +0200
In-Reply-To: <baf1b293-3649-79d5-fa42-72001f9c9d09@trimboli.name>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
Am 06.07.2017 um 21:07 schrieb SuStel:
> There sure is an example against this:
I was talking abut canon phrases as an example.
> TKD's explicit pronouncement that *-be' *is not used with imperatives.
true.
> Maybe Okrand meant it only can't be used to negate the sense of /do
> this!/ but he didn't say that.
That how I read it: commands are "do it" and to say "don't" use {-Qo'}
>> What we can be sure of is that {HIleghmoHbe'} is forbidden, because
>> the -be' negates the command {HIleghmoH}, so we need -Qo' here.
>
> So how about **yIta'vIpbe'?*
What about it? It seems clear to me: yIta'vIpQo'
> TKD doesn't say you replace *-be'* with *-Qo'.*
It doesn't use the verb "replace", but it says
/The suffix {-be'} cannot be used with imperative verbs. For
imperatives, the following suffix is required: {-Qo'} "don't!, won't"/
> It makes perfect, logical sense. But it's forbidden by TKD. Until such
> time as Okrand gives us an unambiguous example,
True.
After some thinking about that, I believe the problem is not so much
within the -be' suffix, but more with the -moH. We have had problems
with that already when it comes to direct objects (cf. yIghojmoH)
TKD says that be' cannot be used with "imperative verbs". Now taking
this literally, I think that we have looked at the -moH part too
closely. When giving a negative command, Qo' is used, but a verb with
-moH makes it two "verbs" (or actions), where the "cause" is seen as an
action, and this one is not negative.
Well, nevertheless, we won't know without asking Maltz.
--
Lieven L. Litaer
aka Quvar valer 'utlh
Grammarian of the KLI
http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
http://www.klingonwiki.net
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